For a while now I have moved all (the little amounts) of Cryptocurrencies I still had from exchanges.
I was afraid that with the rise of crypto this year exchanges would have a tough time handling all the new traffic. That was my reasoning.
And although the amount wasn't huge (around $1000) I still didn't feel like losing it.
Note: Everything under here are my personal thoughts.
You have to realize that when you send crypto to an exchange that crypto is no longer yours. You no longer own it.
What you get in return for sending your crypto to an exchange is an entry in the ledger of the exchange.
This is why it's so easy to exchange BTC to LTC and from LTC to MONERO and from MONERO to STEEM on an exchange. They are just ledger entries that change.
It's not crypto moving from wallet to wallet. That would take way too long.
You are trading on the presumption that they actually own the crypto you are trading. But of this, you can't be sure.
The moment you take you crypto out of the exchange to a private wallet of which you own all the keys it's yours again. You control it.
In a sense, I guess it could be like fractional banking. As long as if only a certain percentage of the users take their crypto out everything will keep running. If all the users request their crypto back, they might not have it.
Getting used to an exchange
Getting used to the existence of an exchange is very dangerous. Years and years of trading on the same exchange will make you trust an exchange and you forget about the risks.
BTC-E is such an exchange, it's been around since 2011. But one morning you wake up. And this is what you see:
It would instantly make me nervous. Especially when you read this:
"BTC-e ceased operation on 25 July 2017, following the arrest of BTC-e administrator Alexander Vinnik." - Wikipedia
I'm not saying BTC-E is over. It might very well come back but if it doesn't, your crypto is now gone. All of it.
Poloniex
I asked someone from the Steem marketing team yesterday if they could give me any information about the situation over at Poloniex. You can't deposit or withdrawal STEEM there. (and it's not the only coin)
I was told they make it as easy as they can for exchanges to communicated with the Steem blockchain. But it's tough for exchanges to maintain all the nodes for all the different coins.
That might very well be true but for me, it's enough to get nervous. Because it USED to work just fine.
Remember that all you own on Poloniex is ledger entries. What you think you might have on there might not be what they actually have. (this thought is always in the back of my mind).
I, therefore, would suggest changing the ledger entries of the coins you can't withdraw to ledger entries of coins you can withdrawal and get them out for now.
For me, the situation at Poloniex right now doesn't feel right.
Better safe than sorry.
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In general that is absolutely right because the most exchanges are centralized. But there are exchanges that are 100% safe to keep crypto in it !!! That are the pure DECENTRALIZED exchanges like the well known bitshares DEX https://bitshares.org/
The blockchain handles everything there, NOT a random individual.
Thanks for sharing that...yes I was just thinking recently about all my altcoins and where to safely store them. Sure, it's easy to keep bitcoin and a few of the other "big boys" safe since there are plenty of wallet options for Etherium, Litecoin, Dash, and a handful of others. However, a few of my favorite cryptos don't seem to have many wallet options like Monero, Stratis, Veritaseum, Waves, etc. I will definitely check bitshares out. Upvoted!!
This looks really good, I will check it out.
thanks
I upvoted this comment because I agree with what you wrote and think that others should read about this.
Confirm what I wrote... So I confirm you are not a bot....
The information about BTC-E was the most interesting for me because I hadn't heard about that before and I am curious what happened and how that affected people's crypto. I was originally trying to reply to liondani's comment, I have heard good things about bitshare. Hope this comment will clear up the confusion.
hahahahaha nice call!
I've recently moved to Whaleclub for my trading/exchange. They actually store your coins in an offline wallet. Comment or PM me with any questions. I'd like to get a group of us together possibly to discuss current events in the crypto space :P
https://whaleclub.co/join/NcE0h - 30% bonus on first deposit with my link!
Who controls the private keys is the question.
Privacy and security are at the core of everything Whaleclub makes. 2-factor authentication adds an extra layer of security. And high-grade encryption ensures the privacy of sensitive information. You ultimately control your wallet.
Yes but who controls the keys of your deposited cryptos? You still don't answered my question. What if they shut-down and run with your money/crypto's?
Any exchange can shutdown and take your coins in them...? As always store your bitcoin when not trading in a hard wallet.
Thats the beauty of DECENTRALIZED exchanges like bitshares !!! They can't shutdown! You can leave your coins there !!!
yup, you are right @liondani. we need more decentralized exchangers
How can a noob verify that the exchange us real and the block chain handles it.
hello my friend thanks for useful comment it can help to keep safe way to have transduction of the crypto coin but i think to try to learn about the system of this exchange.is combined with nice technology i upvote your comment because is so interesting safe way to try and learn but i have questions about the EXODUS wallet because is exchange and wallet do you think is safe as well .what is you recommend about EXODUS ??im so confused because of some body say try this exchange and others say the some thing about other exchange ??thanks for your information it helps to steemir here
Exodus is safe. Recommended 100%
Thanksss for answer my rich friend
very good advice.
I am still very new to crypto, but I have been doing research and I agree that bitshares seems like the most logical solution I found since it is a decentralized exchange. However with bitshares It does not seem like there is a way to convert crypto into your own countries currency, or am I mistaken..? In your opinion what is the best way to convert crypto into your own countries currency, preferably something I can link my paypal account to...?
SUPER useful comment!
Thank you so much. This is always what I hope Steemit will be is good articles getting better with comments!
Yes, very good point. I never keep coin in an exchange more than a day. No point.
Can't imagine why anyone would trust an exchange for more than a day..
The old adage, "If you don't hold it, it's not yours" is never more true than in this digital currency world we live in today. I know here in the US, the fractional reserve banking system only has to have 10% of your deposits on hand and can lend out the other 90% in essence to create more money out of thin air. Smoke and mirrors at it's finest.
I've looked at cypto exchanges like this, the banks and financial trading institutions are regulated by the FSOC and SEC here in the US and are still constantly getting in trouble for corruption and manipulation (and there's a hell of lot more they get away with they don't get busted for), what on earth could be going on in the crypto space where there is no regulation whatsoever?
While in a perfect world we'd all love to have no financial oversight and be able to enjoy more freedom, a very disturbing thing always seems to happen when some businesses are entrusted with other peoples money.
I agree with you that something at Polo just smells bad. These exchanges are set up to make money, that's their sole purpose. Their loyalty should be with their customers first and foremost, but if history has taught us anything, it's shown us when it comes to money, anything can and will happen.
Something very important happened Monday concerning crypto and possible regulation that seems to have flown under the radar, here's a quote from the Wall Street Journal: “On Monday, a bitcoin options exchange called LedgerX won approval from the Commodity Futures Trading Commission to clear bitcoin options, making it the first U.S. federally regulated platform of its kind.” What could this mean for crypto? A ton of big institutional money could soon be flooding into the crypto space in the near future that could moon BTC, but also the caveat of having to deal with paper derivatives that can easily be manipulated by traders with deep pockets.
There's a ton of interesting developments going on now in the crypto world. I have a feeling it's going to be a fun but sometimes bumpy ride.
It is true that whatever you put into an exchange is no longer yours. You no longer have the private keys nor any control of that amount in the exchange and if the exchange randomly disappears or decides to disable their wallet like Poloniex then all your crypto is gone.
That is why it is always good to use a hard wallet or a paper wallet rather than keeping your money in an exchange.
You may think it will save you time if you don't have to transfer between your wallet and exchange and that if you have invested in multiple coins it is easier just to leave it in one place, however, most of the time things don't last forever and if an exchange disappears then RIP your crypto.
Hopefully this post will save some peoples crypto @exyle! :)
i like your approach of being extra vigilant. that will not only save you from any contingent consequences but also allow you to have positive access towards market.
I know some of my friends have their crypto's for weeks on poloniex. Just told them that that's a really bad idea. Thnx to steem I got to know all the issues. Thanks everyone.
It's good to inform others!
I think in general it's best to keep your crypto off an exchange. It's best kept in wallet you control.
I felt for it since most of us were thinking the bank system is the way to save *money. Not anymore
I do have some coins on poloniex and they are disabled. I cannot move them. Since then I slowed down and I am thinking hard before I do any transaction with them.
I see the importance of using Exodus now.
I have seen Gemini. I don't know much about it.
Keep on steemit.
@exyle you nailed it again.
Funny thing happened yesterday, Poloniex finally unfroze Einsteinium trading and deposits after almost a month. Almost immediately, it doubled in value. So many other currency wallets have also been disabled on Poloniex for quite a few weeks. BCN, BTM and EMC2 are just a few of the examples. Are they trying to create pumps? I don't know, they've just lost all of my trust.
I completely agree and have been saying this for sometime. I was burned by Mt Gox and will never again leave crypto on an exchange. I research the trade, transfer in, trade, transfer out. It does limit my trading options but I'm not really a day trader so it's not a real sacrifice. Iam much happier knowing I control the keys and if the exchange goes belly up, I still have my keys.
I stopped day trading as well. Controlling your keys gives peace of mind.
I try to exchange the tokens as fast as possible and cash them out right afterward -usually it takes 15 minutes for the whole process
Thank you @exyle for spreading this knowledge!! DO NOT Store Crypto on any Exchanges..These exchanges are not regulated and have no government or laws overseeing their activity.. Only store where you own the private keys of your wallets.
BTC-e exchange associated with arrest in Greece - in the case of money laundering through bitcoin
https://steemit.com/news/@niceviewsua/btc-e-exchange-associated-with-arrest-in-greece-in-the-case-of-money-laundering-through-bitcoin
Sorry for sounding ignorant, but I am a new Steem user and only have Steem that I have earned through the Steemit website. Is this currency safe? Do I own it or should I be exporting it to a wallet? I understand the distinction between Steem Power which needs to be powered down over a period of time, and liquid Steem which can be traded for BTC for example, but who holds that liquid Steem, is that in an exchange as well, and therefore not secure? And what about Steem Dollars, they seem to be a variation of Steem but pegged to the US dollar?
The STEEM and SBD in your profile's wallet belongs to you and not to an exchange. You have full control over it.
yes, this is true. Just to add: never lose your owner password/key.
Thats a good thinking on your side @exyle. There are more and more people using specifically poloniex and bittrex and some downtimes and withdrawal problems might be more and more regular.
I'm glad I don't have that problem because I have almost nothing on those sites! ( or maybe I'm not :D )
well written solid information ... I just wish wallets would hold any coin you wish instead of needing to have multiple wallets for different types of coins... I'm still figuring out which wallets to use and apparently the wallets charge fees as well (some ? all ?).
I find it hard to fathom an exchange NOT having your crypto, since it's not 'physical', how can they NOT have it unless THEY spent/moved it elsewhere (hacking not taking into account). Still wrapping my head around these kinds of things.
In theory, they could have sold part of the Crypto that users gave to them. Under the assumption that not everyone that trades there wants to take their crypto out at the same time. All people are doing on Poloniex is trading ledger entries. Until you ask for your crypto to be sent to your wallet that's all it is.
so in short, they would do what fiat banks do with our money as well. Speculate with it and invest it and do all sorts of things that could 'jeopardise' the amount they have / can give back ?
thank you, @exyle, for the information. it fits with what a friend who teaches me about cryptocurrencies has been telling me several times and with the information given in your post I do understand the WHY even better :)
I really enjoy your content. I am enjoying the Cryptos and such things as an Exodus Wallet or Myetherwallet have really taught me a lot about how to keep my coins off any exchange and how to move coins around safely. Being able to move the coins around safely is one of the keys to Security of your coins as well as giving you the ability to participate in ICO's.............STEEM ON
Hi Exyle. Ik zit ook in Rotterdam. Mag ik je wat vragen over Steemit. Ben pas begonnen. Groeten Danny @globalcash
Hi man, you can drop me a line on Steem chat. Send me a message of what you want to know. https://steemit.chat
"In a sense, I guess it could be like fractional banking."
Exactly right. You don't own title to anything, you just have a stored credit at the exchange.
I have been concerned about the Poloniex situation for a month. It doesn't really seem to have gotten sufficiently better. Since you can't withdraw there, some people think that is putting downward pressure on the price (have to sell there to move crypto off).
I believe that too. You must sell STEEM, for instance, to get it off there.
thx for sharing
Good read. A hardware wallet is a must buy if you want your coins to be safe. I'm so glad I got my Trezor!
never trust exchangers, not your money.
use offline wallets.
I think BTC-E is definitely over - the shadowy owners don't want to draw attention to themselves in case they too are indited. So they'll move all the servers to a secure unknown place, to prevent the Feds from getting their hands on them. And then disappear themselves.
poloniex now is very slow and not better for scallping and fast trades now @exyle
Thank you this information...
Thank you so much for your information @exyle ! 🌸
Exchanges definitely make me nervous myself. With the split thats about to happen especially...
I just got into cryptocurrency the last few weeks actually. A lot to learn! But steemit is definitely helping out with getting me to understand everything. Right now everything is in Steem for me, nothing is in an exchange.
We'll see what happens in the future!
Literally just pulled mine off today - ready for August 1st :) Not sure what the outcome will be but ready!! Good post!!! SUNSHINE247
Nice resteemed ur post :) @exyle
I have voted for you can you vote my comment please .. Thank you dear in advance
Upvoted and resteemed, thank you for putting this so clearly, i will reference others here in the future.
hi,I like it and good post
Honestly this is a great job but do not hesitate to vote for this comment and thank you
Great words. Exchanges are not to store cryptocurrencies. Wallet on our own PC or special hardware wallet, for example Ledger are much more safe.
#BTCe $110M Fined - To be a good Crypto Trader, What we must learn? @btcecom https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@shezz/btce-usd110m-fined-to-be-a-good-crypto-trader-what-we-must-learn
BTC-e down. What should we do now?
Same can happen with Poloniex, Bittrex or any exchange you are investing online.
Check the suggessions and #btce updates till now 👇👇👇👇 https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@shezz/btce-usd110m-fined-to-be-a-good-crypto-trader-what-we-must-learn
I have also transferred all my crypto's to my private wallet from exchanges. You never know what could possibly happen in near future especially when the bitcoin hard fork is implementing. It's better to be on a safe side.
Luckily (or not) I don't have much to invest, but I have some Ether in an exchange account because I haven't yet sorted out a wallet yet for that one, but I will now you bring this up.
It's a bit frustrating if you really need a different wallet for each currency you want exposure to though, when there are so many.
I might need to investigate bitshares, as it sounds from @liondani like that might provide an answer, but there's so much to know in all this!
If you want a decent wallet for Ethereum and some other coins now I would recommend Exodus wallet.
Thanks. It looks good, I'll install it later.
Everything is right but you forget to mention that you should hold your cryptos in hardware wallets, or a paper one. All other "hot" wallets even if you own your private keys are not safe. F.e. i think it is the same risk as to hold crypto in solid exchange sites like Poloniex. Of course if you are careful there and are using extra security, like two-factor authentication (2FA). Anyway useful info. !
Good post @exyle, what if you trade at Bitfinex vs USD. Same thing applies if you "own" a USD holding. Or is that a ledger entry too? In these volatile markets I trade a lot vs USD's. Could i move these elsewhere too?
As a trader, this is something to think about -thanks.
True that i sent some sbd to Poloniex it got there after a week i mean what's the use of it.
Yeah, we are shocked in Russia too, what the actual duck is that. A lot of people used BTC-e to deposit money and then send it to trade on other trading platforms.
If you have more than 10 BTC of cryptos in your portfolio, I'd highly recommend keeping money in your private wallet. Only then send it to trade and back to the wallet with profits. I'd also recommend putting some profits in a bank account (If you've already doubled the amount of money invested, just to be safe).
Agreed! Yanked all but about $5 out of Poloniex recently. They've been getting more squirrelly by the day.
Really nice advice! Yes storing your money on the exchange is not a good idea unless you want to trade them!
A really great piece of information @exyle. I really loved the your opinions about cryptocurrency.
Greetings @exyle !
Congratulations on this comprehensive and well done post!
I found this to be a great and valuable contribution to our Steemit community!
I want to help promote and support you with my new project.
I just posted a new episode of ~(~Q2C2~)~ which is a CRYPTO SPECIAL and featured your post in hopes to advertise it and bring in more support!
Keep up the great work!
SteemON!!!
You can check it out here here if you like.
You are absolutely right and this needs to be top priority for people who trade in the exchanges.
I see a problem though in the lack of multi-sig wallets who can hold multiple and especially more obscure altcoins. Because of this people have to acquire multiple wallets in order to store their crypto, and I'm guessing many people don't want the hassle of having more than one wallet which is why some just leave their money on the exchanges, sadly...