Damn Those Immigrants

in LeoFinance2 days ago

I am an immigration sceptic.

Being the son of an immigrant, whose parents were also immigrants, this might come as a surprise. However, there it is, I question the needs for immigration. More...

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I question the intention of immigration.

There are lots of positives to immigration, and there are a lot of negatives. There are economic benefits and costs. Yet, I don't think either the oft mentioned pros and cons of these things are the real reason behind the push for increasing immigration. The push against it is so strong though, because there are reasons that people feel are real, whether social or economic. Lack of housing that increases inflation, and social and cultural issues take precedence, whether real or not.

What is the real reason?

It is the same as always.

Money.

What people forget is the economy is a Ponzi scheme, where profits drove decision making. Governments drive policy to improve corporate profits, because that is how they benefit and maintain control, even if it comes at the expense of the well being of the people. Bit, corporations have to drive profits to keep investors happy, which means providing a return on investment.

To keep them happy, a company had to grow and if they expect 10% YoY growth, they would have to double profits every 7.2 years. A million this year is 2 million in 7.2, and 4 million in 14.4 years from now. To maintain that growth, it takes many factors, but at the end of the day, it needs consumer demand.

People are the consumers.

In Finland, a small country of less than 6 million, there were 35,000 more immigrants arriving in 2023 than emigrants leaving. However, there were also 13,000 more deaths than births. The ass has dropped out of the birth rate in the last 15 years especially.

This is a problem.

In reality it is not an issue, because balance will always be found. However, for a Ponzi scheme economy, it is a problem, because it reduces demand in things like housing. So instead of increasing house prices, they increasingly fall. This has lots of impacts, because buying a house is "meant to be" more than a place to live, but also an investment. If the price is going to be knowingly lower in the future than at time of purchase, it is a bad investment.

There are knock-on effects of this too, like less property taxes collected on transfer and yearly. And because less people consume less and spend less, this means less consumer taxes for the government, and less demand for the corporations with those pesky investors who expect increasing profits.

Of course, I am simplifying all of this, but with the millions of impacts that affect our current economic practices, the Ponzi falls over. Immigrants are the ones being shoehorned into the scheme to try and maintain the base of the pyramid. The problem is of course, the society and culture they are forced into is not necessarily conducive for them to survive and thrive. Of people born into that system with familial network and cultural conditioning are failing, what hope do the newly arrived have?

And often, the same immigrants have already been victims of the globalised economy in their home countries, having resources extracted by governments and corporations to boost those profits in the past. Subjected to power struggles that have led them into war, poverty, starvation. They are getting "taxed" many times by those in control, and also getting punished socially from trying to build a better life somewhere else.

Immigration causes a lot of headaches. But then, falling populations cause many headaches too, most of which we generally don't have a good understanding of, because we haven't experienced it before. Yes, there have been times where populations have reduced significantly, like through wars, but these times have led to overall growth in population after, as more unemployment approached zero, as the rebuilding happened. That is not the case now however, there is no rebuilding, there is increasing vacancy.

Even in the countries like Finland where the population is increasing, there is still too much housing in most areas, other than the major cities. Even then, it is not like it is in Australia. Housing shouldn't be a problem for a growing population like in Australia, because it is pretty easy to solve - build more houses. However, because of the global economic crush that is in place, the building economy has been thrown into disarray. Not because of lack of demand, but profiteering along the supply chain.

Investors want their ROI.

And this is the thing to remember when it comes to anything government or corporations touch - They don't give a shit about the people who are affected. They don't give a shit about the immigrants, nor a shit about the citizens. They don't care about the starving, the poor, those affected by war, famine and disease. They don't care about the environment, or about what the future holds at all.

The irony is, that the "people" keep appealing to the governments and corporations to care about these things, to give a shit, but that is not their goal. Their goal is to drive profits, that is it. Inflation and cost of living don't matter, nor does a lack of housing, or opportunity. They don't care if people are getting stabbed or raped, they don't care if people are unable to find work to feed themselves. All that matters, is the balance sheet, and the bottom line that provides them their profits.

You can blame people like me, foreigners who come in and steal your jobs and housing, but I am not the source of your suffering, but I am a victim of the same system that is, like all of us are. Your intuition might not believe it, but also remind yourself that your intuition is conditioned by your culture too, and that has been heavily influenced by the very people who control the legislation, and profit from the outcomes. Can it be trusted?

The problems we face are complicated and complex in many ways, but they aren't going to be solved by the same groups of people and systems that created them, because it is not in their best interest to do so. It is in their best interest to keep people squabbling over symptoms and side effects, but leave the cause at status quo.

But, what do I know about such things.
Maybe it is better to keep begging the government and corporations for change.

One day, they might give a shit about us.

Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]

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For me, it has always seemed funny that people are so worked up about immigration lately. There are so many jobs that are being unfilled for an number of reasons. If immigrants are happy to fill those jobs, why would we deny that. Sadly, I think a lot of it actually has nothing to do with jobs or money, but a large number of (white) people in the US feel like they are becoming the minority and that doesn't sit well with them. It all seems pretty irrelevant to me, but who knows...

but a large number of (white) people in the US feel like they are becoming the minority and that doesn't sit well with them.

Yes, this is the case at the social level for sure. It is part of the divisive narrative to keep people from actually thinking about what is happening. It maintains the status quo for those in control.

Definitely the wrong thing to be focusing on in my opinion.

i don't think becoming a minority in your country is somehting you can sit back and let happen. Look at the UK that is fast becoming a Muslim country and that is unthinkable because the country will forever change. They ae not adding to society and the vast majority are living on benefits with no intention of working. If hey added to society and integrated that would be different, but they are not there to do that. This is far more than an economic migration and is a more of trying to conquer Europe with the enemy sitting within the borders. There will be war and one would be naïve to think there wont be.

I'm not sure it's actually happening like that here. Maybe it is and it just isn't as obvious because we have more space. I don't think people are purposely trying to replace us though.

Pensions and taxes are the main reasons governments want immigrants because without more people paying in they can’t pay out (without highly unpopular moves like additionally heavily taxing retirees, consumers and businesses)

As mentioned elsewhere, there are a lot of jobs that 3rd+ generation people won’t do, at least for minimum wage.

It’s been proven time and again that migrants are more law abiding and less violent, pay more in taxes than they extract, plus have on average a better work ethic. They also tend to be over qualified for the jobs they accept.

The reasons against almost always come down to racism and “replacement” fears.

It’s funny how in Canada we never faced any suspicion despite our obviously non Canadian accent. Strange huh?

Pensions and taxes are the main reasons governments want immigrants

Except, if they can't get jobs, both of these don't happen.

As mentioned elsewhere, there are a lot of jobs that 3rd+ generation people won’t do, at least for minimum wage.

For sure. And, a lot of second and third generations, are integrated, and are highly educated, but still carry a work ethic. Fourth generation, not so much...

The reasons against almost always come down to racism and “replacement” fears.

This is the current argument for sure.

It’s funny how in Canada we never faced any suspicion despite our obviously non Canadian accent. Strange huh?

Not sure how long you have been there, but has it changed over time?

We were there 12 years but had to return to England after my dad passed away and then my mother in law right after. I was born in Canada, my wife had to immigrate there and then passed her citizenship.

All the time we were there we were accepted, though people didn’t always understand our Yorkshire accents (they often thought we were Scottish)

It is ironic that my country has so many minerals and the largest oil reserve in the world, but the salary is not even enough to buy a whole chicken. It is ridiculous, that is why more than 7 million people have emigrated and in the coming years if the dictatorship continues the numbers will increase, nobody wants to leave their country, but they have to do whatever it takes to raise their family.

It is also interesting that with far less oil reserves, Norway has managed to own 2% of all the stocks in the world. There is management, and there is mismanagement.

I think it is for a better life, particularly in economic aspect, which has been the case in recent years in my country. When we apply for a tourist visa of an European country, we are also considered as a potential immigrant.

When we apply for a tourist visa of an European country, we are also considered as a potential immigrant.

Why is this?

Because of the economic crisis.

True facts. You can't separate immigrants from the money equation. The immigrants may come for a better life but they are allowed (by governments) entrance according to the economic needs of the receiving country. Beyond that it seems as though they just don't give a shit

I reckon that if there was no money to be made, the governments would do all they can to keep people out.

Hasn't been that far back in history that people could hop a ship if they could afford passage. They could go anywhere in the world and set up house, no permits, visas. Now you can't go anywhere without 'permission'. Money grubbers have everyone by the shorts.

There can be many reasons for migration. It can be economic, security, health. Most people want to live in countries with high welfare levels and rightfully migrate to settle there.

Governments do not care about most things. Therefore, their influence and authority over society should be reduced.

Therefore, their influence and authority over society should be reduced.

We are the only ones who can reduce it.

As an immigrant, grandson of an immigrant on one side and great-great-grandson of an immigrant on the other side, I agree: it's a super complex issue all around, eh? Interesting to hear Finland is having problems with the birth rate too. Of course Japan famously has been having this problem for yers, but I wonder if the rest of the developed world has caught up, so to speak. Most years it is still a slight negative here, with more deaths than births—and virtually no immigration, so society is shrinking, but I think it has also stopped falling as dramatically as many feared, even with the massive inflation of the past few years.

Interesting to hear Finland is having problems with the birth rate too

It has never been that high, but it has been severely cut in the last 15 years. The social media years. At some point, Japan will balance as the old die and things will be okay there. Just have to ride it out a few decades.

Corporations are greedy, politicos are venial and lazy, people are short sighted and easily manipulated.

Rather than force their administrators to do a better job, enact wise policies, manage public resources prudently,control the naked greed of corporations ,most people fall into complaining and directing their anger in the wrong direction.

Why do is see migrant centres being attacked and firebombed, but not the houses of parliament ?

Divide and rule.

And what is a migrant anyway ? , somebody who wasn't born in your country ?, so what. The problem isn't the person, they will work, they will contribute, they will pay their share, it's the policies that manage the entire situation that allow longstanding failings to continue.

As someone from a country whose biggest export is migrants (Ireland), someone who left home at 18 for better economic opportunities, it sickens me to see the reaction of Irish people to migrants currently. I had every opportunity in my adopted country, it took me a while to get going, but eventually I ended up employing others and generating more in taxes paid on aggregate than I earned myself. I brought up my children to be well rounded adults, contributing members of society.

People are angry, yes, but would they be so angry if their politicos managed domestic affaires better, were not corrupt, self serving and venial. If public policies managed migration sensibly, invested in public infrastructure (have you seen the rail network in Ireland!!, its a shambles) and didn't fall back to beating the same old drum every election cycle.

Migrants are used as a scapegoat, a smokescreen, it's a story as old as humanity.

There will always be barbarians at the gate, if you believe that, well, you've been used and your lack of reasoning is the real issue 💑


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The shape of the color of your money is really very cool. I really like it when I see your currency

I am an immigrant to US as well. I think US has a much smaller problem with immigrants, this is a huge county with growing population and lots of room to grow. Yet, I think some politicians are definitely exploiting the issue. For example Trump with his "They are eating our dogs and cats" and "Build the wall" :) The wall isn't really going to help the issue and the eating cats and dogs was definitely not true. But democrats are not any better with their extreme left policies of forcing gender propaganda in schools, paying people to incentivize them to make more babies instead of getting education and career, etc. Both political parties in US are basically working for the big corporations and nobody really gives a sh*t about the people.

On a more positive side I think this is the first time I beat you in Splinterlands :)
https://splinterlands.com/battle/sl_562149f7b523efb5083e59dc43c8fe57?ref=seattlea

All that matters, is the balance sheet, and the bottom line that provides them their profits.

Screaming the quiet part out loud. Screw these jerks!

I've often thought about immigrating myself... not for money, but rather to make the money I have stretch further. Economies like Vietnam and Cambodia would allow me a more relaxed way of life as less money is needed to keep up my current way of life. Well, except for all the weed smoke. Breaking the law over there is a scary proposition!

How long can they keep the ponzi going, or does it all fall down when the social fabric comes apart?

The problem with the type of immigration we are seeing is that the country is going to change too drastically. Muslim as a religion is not compatible with the West and where the real problem lies. If they were Christian this would not be seen as such a huge problem and why I believe there has to be a major uprising and serious bloodshed on the horizon. Our values are not the same as what is being imported into Europe and the intention is very clear of what the end game is.