Why I won’t be compromising with Justin Sun

in #steem4 years ago (edited)

At this point, it seems like most of the community is in agreement on one thing: they don’t want Justin Sun here. The primary disagreement seems to be how to achieve that. From what I’ve been told, even Justin himself has said he doesn’t want to be here. He just wants to get paid to leave.

So the purpose of this post is to list the reasons why I don’t think it’s a good idea to pay him to leave and why I won’t be participating in any such deal via coding support, money (among other ideas, I’ve been told via intermediaries that Justin would happily sell Steemit to me now), or even as a simple endorsement of a deal.

What’s the value of Steemit Inc now?

In my opinion, Steemit Inc has nearly zero value now

Wait, what about the Steemit stake it holds?

While it controls a stake with a quoted value of many millions, it will never be possible to realize that value now. My best guess is that it is worth around $200K USD, and that's only if the owner considers it ethical to dump the stake that was promised for development. My estimate of its dump value being so low is because it can only be dumped slowly, which will give the market time to see what's coming.

This is also one of the big reasons why Justin is lobbying to get the powerdown rate changed to something like a day. The faster he can dump it, the more value he can get from gullible buyers who think they are getting coins cheaply, never understanding that the coins they are buying will never regain their value, because all the value is going to leave (more on this point shortly). Time is not on his side in such a dump, because the more information people have, the more they will realize that what he’s selling won’t be worth buying.

As a side note, all the above is one reason Steemit got sold to Justin to begin with, in my opinion. Ned has dealt with Steem long enough to know that he was unlikely to extract the value just by dumping it and he didn’t have a plan for how to profit by using it for development (he tried that and failed already). So instead he sold the company for less than half the value of the Steemit stake and was happy with the deal.

Wait, what about the IP and developers?

When Justin acquired it, Steemit absolutely had some strong value, in the form of intellectual property, branding, and experienced blockchain and frontend developers. But now, all the developers he acquired are gone (they’ve all quit).

Branding, good will?

Despite all the mistakes it has made, Steemit Inc also had some good branding and good will from its role in starting the Steem blockchain. But almost immediately, Justin began destroying that via his public statements and actions. I don’t want to rehash that, because almost everyone else has already deeply analyzed those actions (most reasonably with a few bizarre exceptions).

At this point, Steemit Inc itself has no community to support the value of a coin it controls: the only community here is the Steem community, not the Steemit community, and it mostly wants nothing to do with Justin (some are even willing to pay him to leave).

What option does the Steem community have if it won’t compromise?

Before long, we will launch a new coin that is essentially a re-branded hardfork of Steem, airdropped on all Steemians, without airdropping to the Steemit stake. This new chain will maintain all our collected posts and our transaction info and will support all the same Dapps we’ve come to know and love.

I believe all the economic value will move to this new chain and the chain with Justin's stake will ultimately just die. He can keep his chain running for a while, trying to find uninformed people to sell it to, but it’s not going to last long with no devs, no real plan from Justin on how to keep it alive, and most of all, no community to support it.

In other words, I believe the value in your existing Steem coin account will migrate to a value in this new coin. And I believe the value (i.e. the price) of the existing chain will just drop as Justin dumps on that chain.

I see this as a big win for the community and particularly existing Steem holders, as we free ourselves from an entity that has just been dumping on us economically for a long time, without properly returning that value with enough technical development or publicity.

Another cool thing, from a marketing perspective, is we will be a literal demonstration of how a community is what gives a coin value. We should make every effort to capitalize on this in cryptocurrency media, just as we’ve done so far in our DPOS vote fight with Justin.

Does the community have the skills to operate a blockchain?

We have more developers committing to work on this new chain than we’ve ever had before. We already have a team of 36 experienced developers, including key devs that were involved in the initial development and maintenance of Steem. And new developers are joining us daily. By contrast, from what I know, Steemit had 4 devs, and currently has none at all.

And we don’t just have devs, we have marketing people, business people, artists, and idealists. Our combined efforts can do far more than a narrow-minded, profit-driven Steemit ever dreamed possible. As many here know, the community constantly reached out to try to help Steemit, and was continually rebuffed. We plan to be be the opposite of that, with an all-inclusive, decentralized approach to development, marketing, and on-boarding.

Does the community have the resources to launch a blockchain?

Yes, we do. It’s actually much easier for us to launch a chain, because of the many lessons we’ve had operating the Steem blockchain. And as far as financial resources go, several prominent Steem stakeholders have privately offered both computing resources and significant financial support, including my own company, BlockTrades. Even at this early stage, I’m utterly convinced we have sufficient support to launch and develop this new blockchain.

We’re also already hard at work lowering the costs of operating the servers that power the Steem ecosystem (web sites and Dapps). We’ve identified key areas where we can dramatically reduce operating costs over the costs paid by Steemit and we’ll be ready by launch to deploy these higher efficiency API nodes and services.

But isn’t compromise always better?

One of the first things we’re taught as children and often taught again in life, is the importance of compromise. Generally speaking, compromise is often a good idea. But compromise is not always the right choice: 1) it usually fails when you can't trust the other party to keep a compromise agreement and 2) it doesn't make sense to compromise if the resulting value trade is uneven. Both of these apply in this case, I believe.

Making any kind of deal with Justin at this point would just be a case of handing over dollars that we can use for development to a guy who can still go after Ned for financial restitution as well. Any payment to Justin represents both an economic loss to us and a potential financial win for him (since if we pay him off to leave, he can even potentially profit off a legal recovery from Ned too). From both an economic and moral perspective, it makes no sense to compromise with Justin.

What about exchange listings?

Some of our community depends on the ability to translate their Steem into fiat money. They will not be forgotten in this move. To protect them, we will need to get exchange listings. We’ve been in promising talks with some exchanges already, without disclosing too many details to them, and I’m sure we will be able to obtain plenty of listings as we show that our chain is the true community chain. But no matter, I’ll do whatever it takes to make sure we have one exchange listing within days after launch.

We win by fighting, not by compromising

The ongoing fight with Justin has been and will continue to be a huge publicity win for us. We are getting more publicity now than we have had in a long time.

Steem has long been ignored by most of the crypto-space as a failed project of Dan Larimer. We are now being giving the opportunity to show that the community we have is so much more than that, and that we can emerge under the umbrella of a new coin, as a dominant player in decentralized blockchain development. Our strength is the personal contacts we have with each other. We are not just strange looking addresses on a blockchain, we share more than just number transactions, we share ideas, beliefs, and fellowship with each other.

More to come

Now, one thing I haven’t done here is lay out all the details of what we will do with our new, revitalized chain. There’s a lot of ideas for that, and some obvious first steps. But the long term plan is one we will need to build together. The important thing now is to align on what we value and how we want to approach the future. Not everyone on Steem may stick with us, and we have to accept that. But we should reach out where we can, if only to save them from losing money investing in a Justin-run chain (that is mostly why I’m writing this post now, even though I haven’t had a chance to express all of my own ideas or the ideas of others for future work).

There are 8 pages

I commit to this 100%. I will be providing all of my available development resources and blockchain knowledge to the new chain.

The Steem technology will not die, but the Steem blockchain, as you said, has little to no value remaining. I look forward to helping create a new beginning for this community that has already been through so much.

The new community in the new chain will have a real sense of ownership without a looming threat hanging above their head in the form of illegitimate, ninja-mined stake.

There are some exciting times just around the corner. I implore the community to hold tight and keep your eyes and ears open.

To be clear, I think Justin Sun, and likely Ned Scott, should be criminally charged for their actions. Due to this, I fully agree that Sun should not be awarded at all for the damage he has caused. @justinsunsteemit doesn't even engage with the community unless he thinks they will benefit him and vote for his sock puppet witnesses.

Eli Powell is constantly lying or spreading a false narrative about what is to come. I hope everyone takes this opportunity to continue their efforts on the new chain WITHOUT the stain of SteemIt, Inc.

Eli has no dignity what so ever, therefore i consider her to cancer along with Justin and that piece of shit @ned.

Thanks for everything you've done in regards to soft fork, you will always have my vote. Fuck tron, fuck centralization, fuck justin... nono, fuck all of them

How did Justin get control of Steem? Believe me, I am not a fan of Justin or any "leader" of crypto. It goes against the very reason I got into BTC after the 2009 fiasco that opened my eyes to a corrupt and tired fiscal environment. outdated tools and unethical practices were so prevalent, you might as well hand over the fed TO lying manipulating quacks( oh wait, the nation did it). So with that out of the way, Justin keeps crytpo in the mainstream and he has done far better than most of us at a very young age. Hopefully, he will grow up and become the Gates of my son's generation. You should all stop nagging about his take over of Steem. If you can do better, do it and keep the insults to yourselves. YaZEN -"see the tears but don't react, be prepared for a massive onslaught and attack"

Yep, that's why we left the chain :)

Insulting him is the least i can do after he called our witnesses hackers and usurped the chain.
We used to call this place "home", now its nothing more than a blockchain.

Feel free to support everything crypto should stay against. :)


Eli Powell is constantly lying or spreading a false narrative about what is to come.

Really? That would involve communicating with people - and I've never seen much evidence of that!

Ya I'd have a lot more respect if she would quit alongside the devs and Andrarchy. But Steemit is her religion and Justin Sun is her priest :-/

This is so big, unheard of! Cheers to all of you! !BEER

gosh i have like so many questions. are we waiting for andrarchy to get the new dpos chain done from scratch or are we still attempting to hardfork justin out of our lives and then make our chain the most popular chain, while koreans and tron can do with their chain watever? is blocktrades talking about using existing steem sourcecode and just starting a steem blockchain totally from scratch running the same code? what time frame are we talking about?

Blocktrades post is talking about using existing Steemd code, with some modifications, on a new chain with an entirely new token.

It will not be stained by SteemIt, Inc or the SteemIt, Inc stake.

Then we can use the blockchain hardfork technology to implement bigger changes in the future.

The Steem blockchain that Tron has destroyed will still remain in tact for Tron to continue to destroy I suppose. Up to them.

but using the existing blockchain transfering all data and savings, and not starting from an empty blockchain? so that we have steem on that chain right from the start and dont have to worry about loosing all steem in the process of a tokenswap, but can slowly transfer over trons copies of the tokens?

HI & rEsteemed!


Screen Shot 2020-03-14 at 11.33.56 AM.png

Hey @netuoso, here is a little bit of BEER from @manniman for you. Enjoy it!

Learn how to earn FREE BEER each day by staking.

I will be more than happy to migrate to this new chain.

We should not feel obligated to remain on a chain where the largest stakeholder is completely hostile to nearly the entire community. We should not feel obligated to go down with the proverbial ship. We should not feel obligated to maintain a presence simply for the sake of being an opposing force.

Let the centralized chain rot in its own incompetence and arrogance. We will move on with little more than a blink...and will likely prosper once unleashed from our four-year burden of poor leadership and wasted funds.

The albatross will no longer be around our necks. We should seize that opportunity to make this new chain what Steem could have been years ago.

As long as it's a swap, so we can exchange our STEEM for the new crypto. I would hope this would be done in a pretty seamless fashion like BTC and BCH was, for example.

The BTC-BCH split was a fork. If you had bitcoin before, you now had bitcoin on both chains. Blocktrades mentions this will be an airdrop, such that all existing STEEM holders will end up with two tokens (except for Sun).

A swap is distinct in that it requires users to trade or destroy an old token for a new token. That's an interesting model to make sure the new token holders actually care about the project. But ultimately you'd lose the automatic adoption you get from an airdrop

It'll be like bcash but it wasn't a swap it was coins on both chain, you'll have sell on one side as fast as possible to buy more of the other side.

I don't see why exchanges wouldn't support it, Most likely none at start.

Yes they do, maybe they don't lists scamcoins with pre-mines for free through.

So, in the new chain SUN's STEEMS will be removed and Freeom/Pumpkin still be the king?

agree 100%.
HIVE should have free accounts and a kickass mobile app. Anything other than that, and we are left with the same problems of onboarding. Let's do the next one in a smart way.

Exciting news. When Justin will be stuck on his precious chain ran by his sock puppets, he should keep in mind that with short period power downs, he won't be the only one dumping... His stake will be worthless by the time the whole community dumps its own old-STEEM.

I support such a revolution and change. I will give my 100% to support the new chain with infrastructure and experience learned from being a witness and managing servers.

I shall await for the announcement, "Attention all Steemians, Abandon Blockchain, repeat abandon blockchain...Women and children first, proceed in an orderly fashion to the Hive lifeboats and make your way to the SS Hive."
"Not you J.S. Blye, a Captain goes down with his blockchain."

yup. Assuming JSun pushes through short powerdown as soon as he is in control of super majority of witnesses, I would be highly surprised if the market caps of old Steem and new chain don't flip within a week. EVERYONE is going to dump their Steem as soon as the short powerdown is pushed through, and almost all the current Steem whales are on board for new chain.

Better yet, we can convince exchanges Justin Sun is an attacker and he lied to them already, and the world, they could just swap the ChainID for us and we keep the original "Steem branding". The big problem with not going this route, is Bitcoin's hard forking talent into oblivion, no one works together on seperate platforms.

The short power down period would only be for Steemit stake and the 3 Exchanges. Everyone else will have a long Powwer Down period to keep them from dumping.

Hey old buddy! I've been on Steemit only intermittently the last while and have no idea what is going on. Sounds like good news, though?! Everything will just happen, though - nothing for me that I need to do?

Good timing as I now have a ton of content lined up after years of prepping and sorting a lot out. I should be able to be posting quality content 2-3x a week now. Excited if this is a new beginning for all of us!

Gosh! I love this!!!
I hope HIVE will have a good dApp finally.

2020 is already the year of revolution. It's about time we take the future of our community into our own hands.

I, for one, will provide my knowledge & skills towards any goal that is beneficial for this community.

Damn right, 2020 is starting to change to the surface of the world. This year is unique in many ways.

YES! I'm 100% onboard with this @blocktrades!

This is the first time I have seen something that feels truly solid in the course of this entire shitshow. There are so many things about a move like this that feels right... from being a win for our community to the broader picture of it being a win for both DPOS and decentralization on a meta level. I believe this would not only save the community and everyone's years of sweat equity, but it will also be a "watershed moment" in terms of what can accomplished by a group of people working together.

I believe the exchange issue will fall into place, in time. It may be difficult for some in the short term... but the proof will be in the pudding, so to speak.

I was trying to warm you up for this the other day. Glad to have you on board and excited for the new opportunities!

Yes, I remember... and I've been letting that "marinate" since then and it seems like the only appropriate way to go, particularly if there's overwhelming support in the greater community!

And what better time to actually DO this than while so many of us are cooped up at home with nowhere to go due to corona chaos... so we can get the "new and improved" community off to a flying start!

I'm all aboard :)

Just please, please don't name it steem classic.

"classic" sounds like old, obsolete. Now we have a chance to distinct ourselfs from steam gaming platform (google always asks in the search option: did you mean steam?:D )

We've got a much cooler name in mind :-)

Good because I would flip the table if it were to be called Steem Classic. lol

Would you flip the table if it was named “BROchain?”

Because it might be BROchain, bro. :)

Do you even crypto, bro? 😁

Sounds like a gambling crypto. lol

To me it sounds like a faucet that hands out free crypto for poker and casino style social entertainment with zero risks.

Those are my suggestions if name's case isn't closed.

SWARM was close!

Swarms = communities ??

darn it... now I almost wish for a new user name.... Can we have nicknames also?? no worries if not.

I'm using an app called SWARM, it's a location checkin and review app.

Great to hear!

thats good :)

I hope it's a good one! The name "Steem" has always been highly disappointing... doesn't reflect what the coin does IMO :-D

Awesome, a rebrand will reflect the fresh start!

It will be called NEDCHAIN to honor our beloved ex-leader.

oh, no, lets get better names ;-)

Also please don't name it like Synereo Plus or SynerSomething alike :P

Im glad you said it. Damn. 😀
If we fucked up like that again id turn red. lol

If we fucked up like that again id turn red. lol


lol! Please no!!

Agreed. Actually, the token holders should be voting on the new name. It shouldn't be decided by anyone but the majority of the community.

In fact, the entire fork and new features to be added should be voted on by the entire community.

yeah.. plz NOT !BEER

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My two bits of advice: Don't take a long time to release the new blockchain. That's like the games that stay in early access for a long time, so by the time they finally reach full release no one is paying attention to them anymore. And name it something that doesn't include the name "Steem". Not only should the new blockchain and coin be an entity unto itself without hearkening back to the Steem branding, but using the name Steem has always been a point of confusion for some between Steam the game platform and Steem the cryptocurrency. It should be a new and unique name.

New name is Hive. And we'll be moving quite quickly on this one. Most of the delay was making sure we were ready as far as the code, testing, and servers were concerned before we made any kind of announcement that might tip of Justin Sun.

Just for your information: one of the oldest social networks in the Netherlands was called 'Hyves'. I've set up our first date with my wife in 2007 on that platform. Many fond memories..

However, at some point a venture capitalist came along, bought it, tried to turn it into some game platform, which failed miserably.

Let's learn from experiences.

Fellow Dutchie waving

So cool, I met my wife on Hyves as well 😃

It all started with a 'krabbel'...

Hive sounds cool!

Hi, Hive! This is a beautiful name!

Nectar would be better

Hive...? I get how the community sort of acted like a hive and stung off those trying to exploit which is kind of cool in that light, however... A hive is generally to my understanding a hierarchy with a queen which is like the total opposite of freedom/anarchy.

I Googled the science of it more and some people are saying the queen in a hive doesn't really rule and there's a form of Democracy, though, it still seems like hive is often associated with a "hivemind" and "groupthinking" as opposed to individual sovereignty.

I think that critics of this effort will likely start referring to us as "buzzing drones" and "clones", are you sure Hive is the right way to go? The community and tech are what's really important in my opinion, but, a name can have significant implications as well.

Hive doesn't roll off the tongue that great in my opinion, though, it's not that bad either... I think the community will do well either way. Just thought I'd say something cause the word Hive doesn't fit as well with freedom as I might like.

Hive was chosen by a group vote, and I suppose it has different meanings to different people. In the future, as we start exploring ways to improve the chain, I'll share my own ideas for why it can be an appropriate name.

Thanks for your response.
Does the broader steem community even know who this "group" was that voted on our future name? It feels like this was decided in secret without the broader community having any input or say and the name is an important factor in my opinion, it's not "nothing" the name does matter.

One other question. Did you check to see if you have the legal ability to use the name? There's already a Hive Blockchain company, are you sure there's no conflict there? And I mean... Wouldn't it be nice to have a name that is original, new or unique and not one that another crypto company already uses?

I didn't see any poll crated to make the community choose the name. Didn't even here about that in discord. Maybe they just wanted to support the hive communities created. Anyway, we have the right to stay in both chains and see what will happen. We worked for years to spread steem name in the world and it will be hard for us to explain everyone that's hive now. Also in twitter there are already a lot of people talking about #hive and they refer to something related to bees. I don't really know what to say. I also created a poll in twitter and 50% voted to not fork. I don't want to leave them behind. They are like a family to me !

awesome stuff! i have one question:
if i start powering down all my sp right now, how would that affect the future air drops in the forked chain?

I think it's better to not power down before the fork is ready. There will be an airdrop and you will be able to get more of that new hive power ! I think the amount that you will have in steem power will be the same in hive power !

wait. i'm assuming the airdrop is gonna inlucde SBD, STEEM, and STEEM POWER based on a snapshot, meaning even if you're powering down the only difference is liquidity. i guess we'll find out. i gotta wait 5 days anyway before all my delegations are cancelled.

To be quite frank, which is a natural fault of mine of which I just can't help at times, lol, it is totally the wrong name for a new site. Basically for two reasons, first being that many people feel the site is to centered around a exclusive group of people, that it's hard to garner new users and keep them when they are at a disadvantage over it. Many feel, and many that have left feel this way, the platform is centered to the advantage of a few select groups. Second would be that the new name implies such and the fact that people were left out of the decision process to determine or vote on a new name implies such, and implies there's nothing going to change in regards to that. It's one "hive" of people whose at an advantage and decisions will be based on just what they think is right regardless if a majority of users aren't happy with the decision. It would be totally different if a group of people came down with a list of choices and said the new name will be based on which name gets the most votes from the community....not that that will quell much in the decision making process complaint department as most people know how that's going to come down anyway, as the bees will leave the hive to sting the shit out of the upvote button regardless if they know it's going to kill them in the end.

Hive is just totally the wrong image, unless of course you actually are out to portray the site as exclusive as to how it's run. You won't be attracting more bees with less honey.

I don't agree.
This wasn't something planned years ago, much less two weeks ago.

I applaud the quick thinkers who took a name, ran with it and made it happen.

This doesn't seem like an online poll situation.
Time is of the essence!

Think of having your own "HIVE" @apolymask, what is more FREE than that?

Hive Coin... I effen love it .... Steem will always be remembered like that first girlfriend that you exed after finding a real one.

I guess it really depends on how you look at things and what the word Hive means to you, like most words it has numerous different definitions and ways to interpret it and you can choose to only see the positive ones if you want to, however, I think what's even more concerning than the negative implications of the name is how it was done in secret among a smaller group of people as opposed to the whole community out in open in the "sunlight" so to speak in a truly decentralized manner.

And in regard to your last metaphor, I've never exed any women like that before so I can't really relate to your analogy or line of thinking. Sounds a bit insensitive or dishonorable to me, but, to each their own.

Hive has too many negative connotations, how about HONEY?

To be clear, I mean HONEY as the token name, Communities can be rebranded to Hives, but you'll attract more flies with HONEY.

But then we can't call the scandalous types, Hive Turkeys.

I see your point here @r0nd0n.

What if it was the Hive blockchain and the HONEY token?

Holy shit,that's golden.

Yeah, I also think the community could choose a better name.

we kinda broke out in Hives in response to the Sun allergen 😁

Hive has too many
Negative connotations,
How about HONEY?

                 - r0nd0n

I'm a bot. I detect haiku.

Oh haikubot, you finally pay off

Hive sounds great! Do you already have a Logo? 😊

If thats not the case, i would try to create something. Maybe you like it. Its up to you then. I make it for free to give a little contribution.

Hey @blocktrades. I finished a design for a Hive Logo now:

Hope you like it.^^

Maybe if you made the internal shape of a hive, it would look better. But the decision in the end is for the majority, if it really is a decentralized chain

Thanks, i will try out your idea. It sounds good. Not sure if it works well in terms of balancing (could look too "sharp and hard"). But i try a few things with that. I will let you know when i update my Post.

Steemcleaners can't wait to become Hivecleaners or Hiveminders :-)
Or Hivewardens? Hivewatchers?
We need to come up with some cool name to fend off TRON trolls, abusers and spammers coming in :-)

Dang, I thought it was going to be a surprise announcement. We shall shed our steemian skin and become hiveians!

Perhaps a name related to decentralization will be better. The story is clear: a community migrates from its formerly centralized platform to a decentralized place. The name has to spell out the most key aspect about the place.

I get that Hive likely spells out that community is the most key aspect. But the connection is not readily obvious, it's obvious only to insiders. It has to be explained that Hive is about community. Whereas a name that spells out decentralization will be instantly understood.

This is a very good point.

Getting to the core essence of your most important message and presenting that succinctly is one of the fundamentals of real marketing.

There's no decentralization here and never has been, get over it.

Hive will be seen as HIV. I don't like it.

or HIVE or HVE also.... give me a hive five for this one! hehehhe

HIV really isn't a name nor pronounce it that way.

I like this name!

What about the logo @blocktrades ? Will it be the same or we will have a new logo as well ?

New logo for sure!

Will our hive communities transfer there as well ? It's one of the most important thing. I'm building that for months and already 200 subscribers are in @dcooperation

Please! a nice dApp !

Interesting name. I suppose the communities could be called "colonies" or something like that. What programming language is it being written in?

Core code is still C++, we're only making minor modifications there in the initial launch.

I like Hive, but at the same time it sounds a bit obscure... at least is my feeling about the name. Why not, "OpenChain"?

New name is Hive.

Love the name of the new blockchain. :)

I like the word "Elysium" and I think it somehow explains current situation.

From Merriam-Webster:
"Elysium, or the Elysian fields, was the home of the blessed after death."

After the death of old steem, those who had good will, will be there.

Steem has also been confused with Steam Powered Giraffe

yup.... HIVE COIN sounds better the more I say it.

In Solidarity! Will make sure that the new chain is in adherence to the values putting people and decentralization at the fore-front. Any other attempts or interests if arises will be prevented by and all resources available.

... putting people and decentralization at the fore-front.


I'm absolutely committed to providing my development resources and knowledge to a new chain, and would be interested in joining this team of ~36. I'd also hope that we allow for more input into the decentralization of the chain, as the problems around the ninja-mine (not the ninja-mine itself) imho, mostly stemmed from the fact that the stake was also able to control governance. I'd like to see a chain where you actually can't just buy control. LMK how to contact you/this team and I'll get started. Cheers!

I'd like to see a chain where you actually can't just buy control.


Disagree with implementation there, although SP limit does make sense. I was looking at changing number of witness votes, even a 51% attack gets hard when you have to figure out how to split that 51% amongst 4 witness votes, and still have all 4 in top 20, just to get a veto.

We are in agreement that more massaging of the witness voting scheme needs doing. Yet to carry old baggage to the new incarnation of the chain seems to be setting things up to fail in advance. If STINC's was the only ninja mined coin, then a surgical @null|Mr. Sun makes sense yet it was not. Now @freedom will have greater influence and Bernie can be an even bigger bully.

This is exactly what I was talking about re: Bobinson about ninja stake vs. governance issues. I'm totally ok talking about bernie and freedom once governance is stable and, imo, fixed by not allowing the outsized influence. If freedom could only vote 1 witness, and that guy got #1 bc of it, I don't care tbh. It's when one person can control a supermajority of witnesses that I have issues, and that's my issue w/ governance overall. ninja mine would have been a lot less of an overall issue, if it could only control 1 witness per steem.

as the problems around the ninja-mine (not the ninja-mine itself) imho, mostly stemmed from the fact that the stake was also able to control governance. I

Well said. I have always thought the same. Its not the ninja-mine thats the issue but how it was used or rather not used.

'Put someone you hate in charge of the system, does it still work?' has been all over discord lately and it's so true. 'Would you prefer x in charge?' misses the point entirely for me. It's about decentralization, not about who is in charge. There shouldn't be a person 'in charge'. Getting rid of the ninja stake only gets rid of the ninja stake. It doesn't solve the problems we've had regarding decentralization, since the ninja mine didn't cause those either, it just made them super fuckin obvious.

There shouldn't be a person 'in charge'. Getting rid of the ninja stake only gets rid of the ninja stake.

I wish more people understands this. If we need decentralized system as we claim it is, the system design should be done in such a way that there should be hard coded rules that will not change with people's ego. The way I look at the current drama is a failure by the design to incorporate multiple scenarios. It must be remedied in the long term.

I'd like to see a chain where you actually can't just buy control.


Send me your email via steem.chat and I'll add you in.

Or you can email me directly at dan thatfunnyatsymbol blocktrades.us

I would also like to be included in the team. I work on a team with two other developers to build blockchain-as-a-service solutions (formerly steem-as-a-service) and would like to be a voice for LTS blockchain and DPoS governance improvements.

Emailed directly, steem.chat (?) has weird issues for me sometimes. Steemit.chat has expired ssl

Ok, invite on the way to your inbox.

Great News! How do you plan to handle the Airdrop for the exchanges?

Full plans for the airdrop, including important info for how exchanges can choose to support the airdrop will be via a Hive group post tomorrow.

with no kyc please)) Voice chat on telegram had 2 messages/24 hours 2 days ago. Nobody impressed with that innovation by Larimer.

no kyc needed, proof of keys only

Does it need master/owner key or will active key be enough? I lost my master/owner key long ago but I am still here because of the latter.

All keys on the new chain will be the same as the old chain.

Thanks for the answer!

I believe you would already have a great plan for the airdrop. I wanted to share a small thought on this.

I would like to recommend that people should be able to manually login and claim their airdrop instead of getting the airdrop straight away based on their balance during the snapshot. And for the accounts that don't claim their airdrop within a specific period / deadline date, we can probably burn them or cut them from supply.

That method can be unfair to people who lose their keys and later find them (it happens) or who are simply away for a long period of time for reasons beyond their control. Anyways, in cases where keys are permanently lost, the stake is effectively out of the supply anyways.

yes like being in an ICU unit with no internet access

Hopefully not, but especially at this time it is a very good point, unfortunately. Anyway the airdrop method being used will preserve those coins for what we hope is any such community members' hopeful recovery.

An airdrop for Binance so they could play the same trick right away(???)

Great News! How do you
Plan to handle the Airdrop
For the exchanges?

                 - twinner

I'm a bot. I detect haiku.

I'm 100% dedicated to building our new home.
Steem is not a place, it's not even a name.


Fear not, stay clam, we are here for you.
We will keep you informed.

Always clam... ;O)

Looking for the clam after the storm.



Just do not HODL on exchanges. :-)

That. Yes. Exactly. LOL

So essentially you announce a steem fork.

Now to the golden question. How will the airdrop work? Do we get one new steem for each steem we have powered up or what? When will the snapshot be made?

Formal announcement from group with snapshot date for airdrop will be announced tomorrow. This post today is just my personal statement.

Cool, thanks !

Alright @blocktrades, It's been "tomorrow" for almost 7 hours.... The suspense is killing me! lol.

Too bad our steem is locked in binance for the airdrop snapshot. Any recommendation?

Formal announcement from group with snapshot date for airdrop will be announced tomorrow.

Starting a new chain built on theft will not be great karma in my opinion.


There's no theft: Steem will still exist and so will those tokens. This is a voluntary movement by people who don't want to support the value of those tokens, when they were promised for development and people made decisions based on those promises.

This is one of the true wonders of blockchain technology: it allows people to freely associate, disassociate from those with differing principles, and reform as a group again, all on a voluntary basis. At the end of the day, the value of the coins on both chains will be determined by the values of the supporters of each coin.

@blocktrades Please take care of two things:

  • Make the new coin scarce. Much lesser supply than steem will look good.
  • Too much inflation is not good, make it reasonable.

Well an arbitrary decision is being made as to whose tokens will be brought over and whose will not. You are bringing more baggage with you. STINC was not the only Ninja Mined coins.

With your proposal @freedom will have more influence with witness placement than ever before and @berniesanders will be an ever bigger bully in the new pond to name but a few.

If you are learning from past mistakes of the DPoS experiment then my recommmendation would be to leave the old baggage behind. Perhaps start all existing accounts off at 500SPs.

It's your project so your call. It just has no interest to me to get rid of one bully and raise up others. A level playing field seems the way to go for true decentralization if that is your true goal. My guess it is not. Just have to wait to see the OpenSeed has to offer. Maybe the best of all chains by allowing one to come and go among all the splinters of the STEEM community.

If you are learning from past mistakes of the DPoS experiment then my recommmendation would be to leave the old baggage behind. Perhaps start all existing accounts off at 500SPs.

That sounds nice but it doesn't work as well. The new blockchain needs the financial support of some whales, else it fails. Because someone has to pay for equipment.

@blocktrades already said he is working on a better REP system. My guess is the the new chain as a "carbon copy" of the current STEEM DPoS implementation is just the start.

The implementation and even DPoS itself should evolve from there.

They already are aware that without further development it will fail. This very blog post says so.

Putting funds in the SPS system will eliminate the need for whales. In my opinion, the choice to bring the baggage is for self interests not anything as practical as you are suggesting.