What is Going On???
Even if your not from the US, you may have heard about our current, ongoing, inability to agree on damn near anything; politically that is!
The situation is clearly complicated but, it seems to be more of a way for political pundits to vie for favor instead of an issue that people are actually trying to solve.
I would be very happy if we could start a conversation, on steemit, regarding possible solutions. For instance:
If the Problem is Illegal Immigration, Why Don't we Increase Legal Immigration?
What would be the issue with taking those persons who come across the border illegally, and processing them as Immigrants. Issue them a "green card" and tax ID and put them to work. I understand people being frustrated by paying taxes while some other group doesn't pay taxes and still receives the benefits of government programs. So make them pay taxes.
The Old "they took our jobs" argument is played out!
The current state of the US economy is such that we have more jobs than can be filled and the best unemployment rate in years. Would it help or would it hurt us? I don't know. I could wages in the US going up since we have too many jobs. Maybe by letting the Illegal aliens become legal so they can take the excess jobs that increase in wages would be stifled?
Are the Illegal Aliens the Problem, or is it the People they Know will Employ them when they get here?
What is the penalty for someone who goes down to the local Home Depot or Lowe's and picks up the undocumented workers so they can save money by being able to pay them "under the table" and not have to worry about them filing taxes and screwing up the "good thing" they have going.
What are your thoughts?
If someone needs clarification about the situation, I have no problem with discussions to clarify but, I would really appreciate other perspectives regarding something that might help the situation; maybe get us moving in a direction instead of just spinning our political wheels. I know that my house/office can't be the only place in the US where people talk about alternative solutions to the problems that the government seems wholly incapable of solving. What have you come up with over coffee or tea or whatever?
Those of you from other countries/continents; what are your thoughts? I feel like the world has been moving toward a global economy for years now but global discourse doesn't really seem all that prevalent. Facebook seems to be for talking to your friends; people who already (probably) think like you.
Our current immigration system basically allows in the people who have degrees and jobs, and don't need to immigrate.
It doesn't allow people who are working class to immigrate. So anyone who is working class, and wants to work to have a better life, if not for them, then for their kids, must immigrate illegally. I call them undocumented workers, not only because it's "PC" but because they come here to work.
They can't get any welfare, and most do pay taxes, including payroll taxes. Their kids can get some social services, and education, but that's because they're entitled to it. We're assuming that they'll find a way to get legal, and will stay in the country. That's how it's been for decades.
The parents don't get any kind of social benefits if they don't get a green card. They don't get a green card unless there's some law to give them green cards. That's why a lot of children of undocumented workers give money to their parents.
As far as fining people for hiring undocumented workers - yeah, there were laws in the 1980s, and I think they still exist, but it just doesn't happen much. It's a $10,000 fine.
The reason why it doesn't happen is that someone needs to report it, and most people don't care. I don't care. (I want to get people legal and am one of those "open border" types, meaning, more permissive than Democrats.)
The people hiring want to make money. The people being hired want to make money. If someone is working in the office, and some undocumented worker is out there sweating and bringing in the money, will that office worker tell? Their job depends on that guy out there doing the work. They aren't going to report each other.
Then, look at who is doing the hiring. It's usually a local small business, not the McDonalds. Who's going to do the pickups at Home Depot? It's a small mom and pop yard maintenance company. It's a small handyperson one-man operation who needs help on a bigger job. If the person doing the hiring is white, what are the odds that he's a Republican? Think about it. If you're not in one of the 80% Democrat areas, it's pretty high.
He may even have connections.
I appreciate you're stance. The thing I'm not sure about is how an undocumented worker is paying taxes? How do you pay payroll taxes when you dont exist according the government who's collecting them?
Relevance: Immigration Discussion
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Interesting and timely topic, I'l weigh in with some of my thoughts.
First, I don't think the issue of "they took our jobs" has played out, except superficially. And, I know there are more jobs now than even a year ago, and there are more people working now as well... but, the Bureau of Labor and Statistics employment numbers are grossly misleading as reported by the MSM. Even the BLS knows and offers this; Table A-15. Alternative measures of labor underutilization That BLS table shows an unemployment rate of almost double what is hyped by our Leaders and the MSM...
I'm sure we've all heard the point made "that illegal immigrants are doing the jobs most Americans don't want." I don't believe that is as true as most would like us to believe. When I was a young man, a lot of my friends went into construction building houses. Now, if I drive by a building site I see a lot fewer young white men working those jobs. I don't know what the statistics are, but just by observation I doubt I'm wrong, and I'm sure many young white men would like those jobs back. But, when Hispanics are willing to do the same job for less money, it's easy to see who is going to get those jobs.
You ask what the penalties are for the employer that hires illegal immigrant workers, this link may help, DOJ increasing penalty for hiring illegal immigrants
According to my link, two years ago the penalties were raised,
and further down in that article,
So, as you asked for solutions, barring any courageous attempt by our Leadership to address Immigration, the only other alternative I see is to fine employers $100,000 for every illegal worker hired by the employer, with no cap or limit. And, I further propose that Civil Servants need to be fined individually $10,000 for each illegal immigrant they offer financial aid to. The idea is, if there are no jobs, and no financial aid available, a vast majority of illegal immigrants would choose to self-deport.
Of course the argument can be made that there needs to be a better system for verifying, who is a legal immigrant and who is illegal. In fact I'm sure arguments can be made on many aspects of my idea... My guess is if that plan was put in to effect, maybe by Executive Order, than there would be a whole lot of solutions offered by the business community and political leadership.
Personally, I think the Immigration issue is left unresolved by our Leaders on purpose. If Americans are in fear for their jobs, and safety, then they are far more likely to focus on the illegal immigrant as a problem in their lives, rather than the Leadership that is the cause of the problem in the first place.
Very nice points indeed. I appreciate the interaction and I think the fines that you propose would definitely make a difference. I'm sure the dollar ammounts could be off by a few cents but the point is to make them as much a deterrent as possible.
My only objection would be on the part of those who have hired an illegal who had convincing documentation to "prove" that they were legal. I would hate to see a well meaning employer suffer because of the actions of another.
As far as the anecdotal evidence is concerned with regard to construction workers, I have seen similar around here (central ky) but I have also seen what looks like the laziest damn generation of kids ever. So I dont know how many of them are too good for manual labor and how many were underbid by illegals.