Some of the Hive developers have a bi-weekly meeting which they provide updates on things they are working on. They also query each other for information while offering up suggestions.
A lot of this stuff is technical yet the calls can be very enlightening. They are first hand accounts of where the focus lies.
The latest call, which is more than a week old, contained @howo, @blocktrades, and @gandalf (witness @gtg).
There were a couple key things mentioned on the call this were interesting.
One thing is Gandalf discussed the idea of a messenger system. This would not be at the chain level since there really is no need for that. However, having that universal feature available to all Hive-based applications seemed like something that is desired by the community.
For this reason, there are some discussions going on with Rocket Chat. He said that they set up a few accounts and are testing some things. While nothing in imminent, it is something that is being looked into. There might be the possibility of getting that team to help integrating the application into the Hive ecosystem.
Certainly, a chat feature would likely aid in the engagement among community members.
What seemed very exciting was when @howo brought up the fact that he is working on the recurrent payment system. This would allow a user to post a payment once, and then have it occur at different intervals. Obviously, this instant use case for this is for subscriptions. Often, applications provide certain features on a subscription-only basis, charging in monthly intervals. People also automate their giving in the same way.
There are some challenges that have to be worked out. Something that was mentioned pertained to Resource Credits. How are they going to be accounted for? Since it is one procedure, it should not carry the same weight as 12 individual transactions. However, it needs to be done in a manner to prevent spamming of the blockchain.
Here is the link to the call if anyone wants to listen to it. The meeting starts at around the 10 minute market and last roughly 45 minutes.
Why bring this up?
The reason this is important is to gain an understanding of where things are going. After listening to this call, the thought came that we really need SMTs on the base layer. Having a feature like recurring payments would be terrific. However, that would only apply to HIVE. Having the ability for SMTs to set up recurring payments would be of great benefit.
Of course, there might be a way to easily program that into the smart contract layer on the second level. Nevertheless, the advantage of first layer development with SMTs is any upgrades made to the HIVE are translated to the other tokens.
Even more importantly, it is valuable to see (hear) what is being worked on. It is likely that most of the community is unaware of how much of a hindrance Steemit Inc was. They controlled the blockchain development meaning everyone else was affected.
This is no longer the case. Good or bad, this is all in the hands of the community. The other day, Blocktrades put out a basic road map showing some of the things that organization is going to be working upon.
When did we ever see anything like that out of Ned and Steemit Inc?
A feature such as recurrent payments would allow for some interaction similar to Patreon and number of other sites. While it seems like a small move, it does put Hive in a much different class of content creation. This would provide content creators and developers different options. In short, another layer could be added to their offerings, providing more exclusive content.
Source
Seeing some of the issues developers are confronted with can be enlightening for those of us who are not into that. It seems like it is technical, a group of people hacking away at code. Get the bugs worked out and everyone is good to go.
However, these calls reveal that a lot of thought has to go into each phase of development. Even a feature like recurrent payments has many variables to consider. What happens when one does not have enough balance to make the payment? How are they notified? Does the system charge for the resource credits up front? How often can one do these? What is the maximum time span that a payment is good for?
It is easy to be negative on something when there are not a lot of overt changes taking place. The tendency, and rightly so, is that if there is no communication about development, there must be no development. This is especially true when the updates (hard forks) take place every 6 months or so.
Every once in a while it is good to get a reminder that things are occurring. There is work being done on the blockchain which will allow for greater use in the future.
Sadly, Hive is at the point where it is having to redevelop a lot of the infrastructure that was in place. Either it was outdated or spotty to begin with, both which necessitate reworking the code. Improving the core operations to provide more efficiency seeks to provide the blockchain with more resiliency, stability, and a lower cost of operation.
None of this is stuff that will draw in a million users. Nor is it very sexy in an announcement article. That said, this is very important if Hive does attract a million users.
Some insight was gained into how difficult all this is when the testnet for Facebook's Diem went live. The result was a whopping 6 transactions per second.
Does this mean that project is dead? Not by a long shot. It is likely that Facebook etal will keep working to overcome this bump in the road. They will achieve greater speeds.
Nevertheless, if a company the size of Facebook can only attain a 6 transaction per second throughput after more than 18 months of development, we can see some of the challenges that exist with all this.
In the meantime, Hive can blast out thousands of transactions per second, perhaps tens of thousands (we believe since we never came close to achieving that).
Ultimately, Hive is like an abused dog. When it first comes home from the pound, it takes a while to come out of its shell. However, back it into a corner and it has some fight to it.
Not only was the community abused, but so was the development. We are now all dealing with the residual effects of that. It is taking a while since we literally are playing catch up ball. Due to the ineffectiveness of what took place, we are probably two years behind with everything. Alas, that is the proverbial "water under the bridge". We can only go forward from here.
The Hive community proved it has fight. This might be the most vital characteristic it has. It is also something that should pay dividends down the road.
Often the difference between success and failure is simply sheer tenacity. This is something that people on Hive seem to have an abundance of.
We simply keep trudging along until the mission is complete.
If you found this article informative, please give an upvote and rehive.
gif by @doze
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New slogan?
LOL Perhaps.
Go with the sympathy angle.
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The introduction of a recurring payment system is definitely optimal.
I also think of a Hive card for payments with Cashback (I also mentioned this idea for Leofinance) because I think it is a big incentive to use crypto, compared to FIAT credit cards (which even have a monthly cost)
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That gets into a whole lot of difficult areas. Having a credit card means, in many countries, having to adhere to the banking regulations.
Besides, it might be tough to get others to accept it. I am not sure you can just latch onto the Visa network.
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I feel since hivefest will be VR it's quite open and attendable and will be instrumental to marketing like it's been said there. Basically these guys are brilliant minds I hope they come up with what's best for hive.So is @howo suggesting that we should somehow get an ad revenue to monetize the hive frontend just like brave browser does it?
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Not what I said in that particular meeting but yes, that's what I think. I think Ads are one of the best way to realign incentives to make hive grow.
The problem with Hive is that the front ends can get paid for showing ads in fiat and they have no incentive to use this stream of income to boost the price of the token. The only way for ads to directly benefit the price of HIVE would be on-chain ads.
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On-chain ads can work, they already kind of exist in the form of promoted posts, it's just a matter of displaying those posts correctly. But it's not too hard to imagine a world where front ends display ads, then get paid in fiat, buy hive with it and give it to the authors who got the most pageviews.
First this creates obvious buy pressure and authors are incentivized to share their post outside of hive instead of inside of hive to whales. resulting in more outreach => more content creators / investors => higher coin price => more investors etc
Years ago I had mentioned the need/desire to have at least one but no more than two ad slots as part of the editor template. Before publishing a post I suggested having the ability to choose from ads located inside of an internal ad market of sorts that can only be accessed when inside the editor. Designed a basic business model inside my head where these ads first pay more for higher slots within the internal ad market, because those creating the ads would benefit from 'visibility'. Basically a long list of promoted posts I could add into my posts. If someone clicks on one it would be a vote for me plus I'd share in some sort of profit pool for hosting the ad. Members here create these ads. The logic was based around how there are far more ad slots if each post had one or two, rather than the tiny handful of slots located on something like the trending page. There's more to say about this. That's only the basic idea. Can't be executed properly with the information given here.
Now with these recurring payments I could expand on this idea further. I like the idea of choosing ads myself because I know my market better than anyone else. Consumers could also benefit in some way by clicking the ads I suppose, similar to curator rewards I guess. I'd have to think about this again. Been awhile. It all started when bidbots and paid votes were converting actual content into paid programming/advertisements. I thought that was silly because ads are typically tucked inside actual content. Also the paid vote system couldn't scale. If 100 people were all buying votes at the same time, vying for top trending slots, they'd be paying for about 5 minutes worth of time because the next 100 are right behind them. A business model that becomes useless the moment it can become as successful as it can possibly get was something that always got a chuckle out of me.
I might revisit this internal ad market idea again.
I think the Ad slots are a good way to advertise and promote new projects on Hive.
Something, which, we don’t have, that I am aware. This concept is interesting and it strikes me that we could think through variations on this also, the initial version would resemble banner ads on posts of authors with high engagement.
The second version could be well established authors hosting content of less well established authors on their blog to provide visibility and an audience.
It would be quite a departure from what we currently do, but would provide additional revenue to established authors, allow them to monetize their fame, and allow them to nurture new authors and help grow the community.
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Yeah, I mean, the sky is the limit with this model. Many use cases that extend well beyond classic banner ads that lead away from the platform. I personally prefer consumers locked into the platform as much as possible, rather than being led astray, since their eyes so valuable. PeakD has a couple promoted slots on the main trending page. I think we can do way better. Once I have a moment I might write something up then the community can brainstorm around it.
This is a great idea, should be on the chain and not only inside your head.
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It's documented on chain.
Makes sense.
I think so too, no matter what we might think, a stable sort of price brought by ad revenue and burning might push some of the developments we want to happen on hive.
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All we, who cannot program, can do is to produce content that makes the blockchain attractive, acquire new users and provide ideas that might be useful for the blockchain.
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That is true. We all have our role here.
This is our community and we cannot absolve the responsibility to others.
Sure, most of us are not able to code and work on the blockchain itself. By the same token, we might not be able to create awesome apps.
What we can do is post content that will be a good representation of what we want others to see plus commenting to increase engagement.
This is something that anyone can do.
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Without us, content creators, the blockchain would be just a tool.
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thanks for these continued posts about Hive! They are very informative and ingteresting and I think inform much of the user base which would otherwise not know that these things are going on. It's stuff like that which brings value to this chain :) 👍👍
Recurring payments is an exciting turn. With something like that we could take the edge from patreon. I have read that many of their users are not entirely happy with the terms
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In the end, people get upset with centralized apps. There is always a disconnect between the user base and the VCs.
This puts them at odds.
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It is important to change something as soon as possible. To be recurring payments (which I don't realize why they are so important), to be a kind of messenger system or to be display ads, whatever would be good, but to happen. Because many are impatient, even if they are tenacious!
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The is a must for Hive native apps since this would unlock a OnlyFans or Patreon exclusive content experience.
Delegate a % of HP to unlock or perhaps yield farm asset as collateral synthetic. A combo of both.
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Boom. This epitomizes what happens. All of a sudden people look at it and innovation starts. The idea of that didnt even come to mind but it makes sense.
That is just the start of what can be done.
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A message system would be great 🤯🤯 As well as the recurring payments, this would be Hive at another level.
And of course there is still much to be done in Hive, but I firmly believe that it has the potential to attract not 1 but millions of users.
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without a doubt. In listening to the call as well as the road map Blocktrades put out, it shows there is a lot of infrastructure needed to be built. That will take a while.
Once they are passed the rest of HF24 stuff, which they might be, they will have a ton to do for the second layer infrastructure. I imagine we will see things advance a great deal over the next 6 months.
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It will be the best 6 months we will ever see.
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I'd kind of like to see a test of how many transactions we can handle per second - I guess resource credits would kick in to limit this at some point?
If Hive starts to get busy some people might be in for shock at how costly making a comment can be!
Well you and I will probably be fine, as we're pretty phat on HP but a lot of accounts could struggle!
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I know that Dan ran tests way back when and I would believe that there are others that have been run. However, doing stuff on a testnet or in simulation is one thing, real world is another.
I would think the cost of the RCs would go up, meaning each transaction would eat up more RCs requiring recoup time. People would still be able to transact but it might not be at the same level as when the blockchain is slow. However, I dont know about that being exactly true so if someone has more knowledge on that, please comment.
Certainly a concern. How it is handled is beyond me. I think I read, once upon a time, that the witnesses can adjust the RC levels to accommodate more activity. But that might be wrong.
I think a lot of what blocktrades is working on is meant to address the scaling issues. It all comes down to cost so if we can run the nodes with less memory, we can add more memory if needed for the same price as it was before.
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The variability in RC costs are most noticeable when you claim multiple account creation tokens - it's varied quite a lot in recent months for me, 3 times difference in cost - presumably when a bunch of other people have just created accounts it gets more costly for me to do so, since that's the most intensive activity.
I didn't know that about changing the RC levels.
I guess what ultimately limits us is how much data can fit in a three second block! That is finite after all.
If someone decided to publish their PhD in a block I think that would fill it up I worked out once - 100K words - but that's a lot of Custom Jsons or comments!
I guess in times of heavy load things would just not publish to the chain for those without sufficient HP.
Although I don't know how data load factors into all of this either come to think of it - as far as I'm aware in RC terms publishing a PhD costs as much as saying 'nice post'.
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Another thing, the fact that these conversations are taking place is beneficial. It means that people are not overlooking it, including the developers. Thus, scaling is at the forefront for a lot of people even though there is little need for that right now.
For that reason, I have a feeling solutions will be in place before it is truly needed.
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I think posts and comments have different RC values but I am not 100% certain. If not, you are correct.
I think one thing we will see is what Leofinance is doing. They are using their servers to cache the data and published on the blockchain's time. That means the user doesn't see the delay and is not affected by it. In the end, does it matter if something takes like 10 seconds to post if the front end operates in real time?
But these are all questions/discussions for people a lot more knowledgeable than me. I don't have enough understanding of how it all works.
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That caching solution is pretty elegant, it's a good idea!
I think part of the problem with the knowledge gap is that a lot of this is contingent, it all varies depending on what's going on - dynamic is probably the word I'm looking for!
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There truly are a lot of moving part. It is really interesting to keep digging through the different levels.
We are seeing a lot happening at one time. Some at the app level like with Leofinance and other things at the blockchain level.
I have a feeling that people are going to have a totally different view about both Leo and Hive in 6 months. This will be a completely different place.
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Spot on as usual! I really wanted the SMT, and have wanted it for a long time since it was one usp from the beginning with Steem. I want a big diversed hive universe where smt can able all communties to tokenize!
That is true. A lot of people are in the same boat. We will see how things unfold in the next 6 months.
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Things are improving and telling each other about improvement and suggestions really helped develop further also I like to read these posts improve my understanding hive
It is all about excitement. If people get excited about what is taking place, that comes through.
Look at Leofinance. For more than a year, that was plugging along. Yet, about 4 or 5 months ago, the excitement really took off. Now, most involved in the project are really licking their chops.
We just need to see this spread.
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Yep when minded people start talking the talk alot and have discussions which in turn helped communities grow with like minded people it become a place with people can share their ideas and improve them it become like a council
Hey man can you tell me where I can promote my Leo post to get some upvote for my content
Because I get 1 or less than 1 Leo that's why i stop posting content
When you put up a post, go to the ... and in there you will see the promote button. You then can promote your post which will make it more visible to others.
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Thanks man and how many to I need to use leo for iy
That I am not aware of.
You might want to stop by the discord and ask in there or DM @khal.
He might know better.
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Thanks bro by the way I like you videos that you make about finance
it will sure help everyone there but i agree that this has to be implemented on second layer tribes as well. It's so refreshing to finally see a roadmap, it shows us that behind the scenes people are working
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A road map is great to instill confidence. What adds to it is the ability to go out and complete the objectives over time. Too often projects do not offer a road map or one is put out and it is totally ignored or forgotten about. I will say that Blocktrades has been good about putting together regular updates so I think they earned a lot more trust than Steemit Inc which was not only spinning their wheels, they went months without saying anything.
At the base level, we might have come further in the past 9 months than we did on Steem in the last 2 years.
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totally agree with this... Better late than even though
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View or trade
BEER.I really like the transparency on this platform. It's nice to hear what the developers are discussing.
Thanks for sharing this information!
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Communications Director than steems ever did, and he is not really the Communications Director. I am one of those people that actually enjoy listening to their Dev chats.Yes @howo has been do a 100% better job as a
There are few places to go and learn what is taking place in the development side of Hive, so I do appreciate the post very much.
That's great to hear all the work in progress in the background. These are things I have been waiting a long time to see finally coming to fruition! Something else I would like to see is the ability for ads, maybe users can monetize their own content that way if they have an outside audience also encouraging writers to share on other social media resulting in more views and traffic for hive . Most of the content consumers everyone is looking for will never join the platform, they just want to read stuff...easily from their facebook or twitter feed or whatever, like a blog-press of the crypto world type approach. Without those features, I think the platform overall is missing out on potential revenue in several ways by not monetizing indirect viewer traffic to the platform. That would give each user the ability to try and earn on their own instead of being at the mercy of a whale or curation team to come splashing by their posts, could help with moral and user retention, along with appearing inviting to those who already have an established audience elsewhere...who knows.
I choose to see Hive as Hive, a new project going in another direction altogether. In my opinion, when we split, we began brand new, fresh. So to me this is an 8 month old platform/project. I wish more would remember that. The days of steemit don't really count as you mentioned, that model clearly wasn't working and why everyone split.
If we want encrypted, minds.com has encrypted chat, and open source code.Can't we just integrate @aggroed's bee chat?
Looks like you have an interesting guest there. I'm not into it that much that I've heard of taskmaster. Looking forward! @tipu curate !invest_vote
Upvoted 👌 (Mana: 11/22) Liquid rewards.
@anli denkt du hast ein Vote durch @investinthefutur verdient!@anli thinks you have earned a vote of @investinthefutur !
My instant thought was Patreon. There has been so much censorship going o with the platform.
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Big difference is that this is at the chain level, can't censor anything.
That is a great thin to know. With good UI/UX and decent promotion, we can end up turning this into a real Patreon competitor DAPP. https://hivepay.io can help to bridge the gap between crypto and fiat.
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Ok... That was pretty fun, @taskmaster4450! Haha!
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Well, to be fair, it is only their testnet and I would not bet that it stays at that level.
As for the transactions, I would say you are probably right. However, I do not know about the details so we shall see.
It will be interesting to watch how quickly the project scales and evolved.
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