That's No Fun

in LeoFinance5 days ago

This is not a clickbait title.

Though it comes with some caveats.

A few weeks ago, my daughter started playing math and reading games for her school homework, and the teacher tracks the progress. She enjoys them, but I don't like them, and have mentioned it to several people over the last few weeks. They think I am insane, because when I say that learning shouldn't be fun, it goes against everything they believe.

I learned learning should be fun, too.

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I learned wrong.

And as recently I have wondered why, I think it might have come down to the way they might have tested, the timeframe of testing, and what they looked at indicators of success. For example, if two people had zero skill in something as the baseline for the test, and one was taught the traditional "hard, boring, blood, sweat and tears" approach, and the other played games to develop the skills. It is very, very likely that the most improvement is going to be seen in the one that is having the most fun. At this point, the jury verdict is in,

Fun wins.

However, this doesn't take into consideration the potential overall goal of learning, which might be to become very good at something. It seems intuitive perhaps that in order to get good at something, it is best to start from having fun first. But, to be really good at something, it takes a lot of perseverance, and this means a lot of repetition which ultimately requires being able to overcome boredom, even though the tasks themselves are boring.

If children are learning through games and having fun, they aren't dedicating themselves to the object being learned, but to the emotion of having fun whilst learning. There is perhaps a subtle, but fundamental difference in this, because essentially what they are becoming are fun addicts. This means that as they grow, they are going to be predisposed to only doing things that give them the fun high, and that almost certainly won't be the process required to develop high skill levels.

While "learning should be fun" might seem intuitive, it is good to remember that our intuition is calibrated through our conditioning, not by some magical force that automatically knows right from wrong. This is why a lot of what we have learned to do and what actually works, are in conflict with each other. Just because we have learned that something is the best way, doesn't make it so.

Because we are starting kids learning by having fun at younger ages and with more compelling experiences, what we aren't considering that in order to keep it fun, it is going to have to get more and more fun as the learning gets progressively more boring. We are creating fun addicts and the more fun the experiences get, the more desensitized to the enjoyment the children become.

And, there is evidence of this in society and culture already, where simple pleasures like going on a picnic with family was considered a summer highlight. Now, it requires going to Disneyland, or on an overseas holiday. This is not to mention the time spent in front of screens, consuming narrow entertainment from a pool of resources which a person could learn about absolutely anything.

But, learning isn't fun.

People like the expected results from learning, but the vast majority of people don't actually like the process of learning. If they could snap their fingers and possess the skill, they would. Or, like the diet pill industry has again shown, if people can buy the result, they will.

But to buy the result, it means that there has to be an engineered solution, and those solutions are coming from people who have very high skill levels. If our innovation depends on skill levels, if getting to Mars, solving for clean energy, or cleaning up the environment require high skills from a few people, we have to consider the pool of people coming through the ranks. The smaller that pool is, the lower the skills required to compete and therefore, the lower the skills overall. Sports tells us this, because as the incentives to compete have risen, so too has the skill level, so a basketball team from today would wipe the floor of one from thirty years ago, because of boring learning.

The more advanced a topic becomes, the more boring it gets, because it comes down to fractions of improvement that are barely seen and take a long time and a lot of effort to acquire. Skill development starts off rapid, but plateaus to the point that the improvement is negligible. It is governed by diminishing returns for the effort required, but those minor returns can be the catalysts that lead to major developments.

If we start children off with a lot of fun learning, the expectation grows that this is the way learning should be, and that is just impossible. It is impossible to keep ramping up the fun in the same way it is impossible to keep ramping up the heron in the veins to reach higher highs. Eventually, the body overdoses.

And that is where we are heading with entertainment as a learning methodology, because while it might get people into a topic, the high required to keep them there is unsustainable. However, they will drift from one instance to the another, chasing the next high, but getting nowhere they feel valuable. Searching for meaning, purpose and connection, but not having the skills and commitment required to build them adequately to the point they can feel them.

Learning should be boring.

And perhaps this is where I am currently landing, where learning itself should be boring, with the excitement and enjoyment coming from the ability to apply what is learned well. Perhaps we should stop playing games and instead learn how to overcome the boredom of learning, so that we can really advance our skills and approach our full potential. Because, what we are doing now by learning a bit is falling into the Dunning-Kruger effect fallacy, thinking we know all we need to know. But, if we were able to push through the boredom and learn more, than we will learn how much there is yet to learn, and that is exciting.

I'd be interested to hear about the skills you consider at a very high level, how you learned them, apply them, and improve them.

Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]

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Wow! As a secondary school teacher and college professor for the last two decades in mathematics, all I can say is: very well said.

The basic symbol manipulation of Algebra, for example, while in one sense is the primary goal of a lesson, in another is almost ancillary...the ability to sit and focus on something that is not fun, not entertaining, even mentally challenging/draining is a superpower in these times.

What we want, ultimately, is people who can analyze problems and bring tools to the table to try and solve those problems...this doesn't happen in the nice, prepackaged, thirty second chunks their brains have been trained to consume.

Creating fun addicts becomes an even worse disservice when learning that isn't fun becomes an insult, an assault to the student. They will tend to resent and revile it and view the education as a form of oppression...a mindset in which very little can be learned, fun or not.

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Teacher here. Ditto.

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the ability to sit and focus on something that is not fun, not entertaining, even mentally challenging/draining is a superpower in these times.

I think we are now in a phase of "those who can direct their attention, will rule the world". Not many of the youth of today can, unless they are in mindless entertainment mode.

Playing chasey/tag with your friends won't turn you into a marathon runner.

I don't think I have any high level skills to be honest. I am one of those people who is a jack of all trades, but master of none. I know a little bit about a lot of things and that is pretty much it. My wife hates it. She can't understand how I have all these useless facts and trivia floating around in my head but I can't remember to empty the dishwasher. I think learning shouldn't be too fun either. Unfortunately, we are starting to lose control over that in the education system. If you don't make it fun enough the children complain. Who do they complain to? Their parents, then the parents come and complain to the principal and who gets in trouble because it isn't fun enough? The teachers. I totally understand why so many educators are quitting these days. It's a different world and no one has their back.

Their parents, then the parents come and complain to the principal and who gets in trouble because it isn't fun enough?

Parents don't want to parent anymore. They want their life to be easy, so they want their kids to be happy all the time, without thinking what the future holds for them.

I totally understand why so many educators are quitting these days. It's a different world and no one has their back.

Perhaps we should see it as the "wasted generation" and start again.

That's just a really sad attitude to have, but yeah, I just don't know...

I think we get so bored studying because we create the habit in children. We limit them many times believing that there is a certain age to learn. But from the time they are born they are constantly learning. They are learning to talk, learning to walk. The other day I was watching an experiment in which they put 3 and 4 year old children to study every day for 3 months. And at the end, those who listened to the reading, the stories the teacher read to them, preferred to paint and fix, to explore the books than to play. Evidently. The other group just wanted to play.

There is nothing wrong with playing, but how it is played matters. The goal should never be to pass a test, but to build a life.

In these modern times, the educational approach must be adapted to children's innate needs and curiosities. Forcing them to follow traditional and rigid methods can actually limit their potential and make learning a tedious task. Children learn best when they are allowed to explore and discover the world at their own pace. Education should be a balanced mix of play and directed learning, encouraging both creativity and intellectual development. Recognising that learning happens constantly from birth helps us to create more inclusive and dynamic environments that engage children's natural interest. Adapting educational methodologies to be more flexible and engaging will not only keep their attention, but also nurture their love of knowledge. And for this, teachers must lead by example.

I would like to believe that passion is more important than fun, long-term. Should be fun learning the ropes, but should be also hard and challenging after, in order to master it.

I think this is where the flow state comes in. I think that is the "fun" of the challenge - but it isn't easy, it isn't entertaining.

Interesting and I would agree once I read it through. I don’t know if learning should be boring but it shouldn’t be fun necessarily. It should just be a normal activity instead of a fun or boring one. I do think we are causing issues in the long run if what they are doing is fun all the time. Getting them addicted to the dopamine of it is bad.

Once that condition is set, it plays right into the hands of social media addiction and all the other "gamified" experiences. Trained to be addicts.

This post resonated with me.
As my kids age, 11 and 13 now… I see signs of this fun addiction. As studies get harder they really demonstrate a lack of desire to push through tough math or science. I notice aversion to any struggle at learning. They soak up praise and the feeling of how good they are at a thing. But when the hit that wall they hit it hard….my dad talk of ‘It’s not meant to be easy, mistakes are part of this’.
Is met by. ‘I can’t, it’s too hard’
Maybe I have blocked out my own struggles learning, but I don’t recall so much whining when the learning got tough. 🧐🤦‍♂️

I have been keeping my daughter off of digital games for eight years, and it annoys me that now she is essentially forced into it. People think that as long as the topic of the game is something like math, it must be good. The value of games isn't the topic, but the behaviors that are learned.

Maybe I have blocked out my own struggles learning, but I don’t recall so much whining when the learning got tough

I don't recall much whining from most people from when I was a kid either.

The best way to educate a child in this digital-spatial age is to foster a balance between the use of technology and the development of social and emotional skills. Integrating digital tools in an interactive and educational way, while promoting outdoor activities, reading and creative play, will allow children to develop a critical, adaptive and balanced mind, preparing them for the challenges of the future.

I think the balance between technology and social skills is crucial. Technology is a powerful tool, but a child's holistic development also requires real-world experiences, social interaction and fostering creativity. Every child is unique, and tailoring education to their specific needs, incorporating both digital and traditional, is probably the most effective way to prepare them for the future.

The best way to educate a child in this digital-spatial age is to foster a balance between the use of technology and the development of social and emotional skills

I disagree. Children shouldn't be in the digital world until they are closer to teens. They are missing out on fundamental skill development that can't be taught later. I don't think there is a healthy balance - just degrees of unhealthy.

So did the budding psychologists of the 1970s, with the new technology of the time. At the time, I was just coming out of primary school. Those were hectic times, but here I am, enjoying old age without complaint, adapting to the digital age that is here to stay and whether you like it or not, kids are part of it, there's no going back.

Dead right. As a teacher I'm expected to 'make learning fun'. Wtf. Sometimes it's just hard work. The joy is in the a-ha moments. It's the feelings of accomplishment you get after struggling through a problem. And believe me, sometimes games teach you jack shit - they are too busy 'having fun' to absorb and experience deep learning.

I think I might have mentioned this to you before...it's about bring intrinsically motivated. Then learning itself isn't actually boring at all.

the excitement and enjoyment coming from the ability to apply what is learned well.

Yes. And to just experience the pleasure of learning itself. I mean, learning is just cool, isn't it? We know that!

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It could be a fun for those at such ages, but we can't call learning fun when they are teeanage as what they will learn will be essential for their education life and future at last, such as university and choosing a job.

I also added cards in my recent piece.

They think I am insane, because when I say that learning shouldn't be fun, it goes against everything they believe.

Would it not be great if we could just touch a book and knew what it was about? Because apparently now reading is boring...

Also today I got a comment that said that:

did you know your posts could get better curation if you increased your word count to 250 words and above?

Is that true?

Honestly I'm glad I decided to follow your articles, sincerely speaking the problem in question is the process of learning, whether it should be fun or boring?. I honestly agree with everything you have said, because judging from physical training experience it was insanely painful and the insults where hash until I started getting accustomed to it and I could do more, even to the extent of attempting calisthenics skills that alone made me believe the process is fun, as it leads to the end point and that end point leads to another.

I believe that's the mindset we need to enjoy the process not the end go, and also realize a top is nice but it's also a bottom to another top, and the process is where you would always be, so it might feel hard but isn't it worth it that your growing ?. Thanks for sharing such profound insight.

PIZZA!

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(1/20) @definethedollar tipped @tarazkp

Yeah, much like prayer or praying to God is boring to others but is super beneficial actually whenever we do it. 🙏 It is not done for fun or getting that "spiritual high". We can even pray not only for ourselves but we can even intercede to help other people too.

Extraordinario enfoque sobre el aprendizaje

In my opinion learning is best accomplished when it is fun. The mistake made in many cases is due to the presumption that learning can be made to be fun extrinsically.