@yabapmatt.sps I will be real honest here. I usually do not comment on these posts because whales are gonna whale. People will go on discord message and call campaigns to sway votes. So what I say literally means jack. I agree changes need to be made to wild to deal with bot farms. But I think that the term bot farm has gotten out of control. I have ONE account with 57k sps staked. I also rent another large amount. Due to being on disability this is literally my max smount of money I can spend on this game. I have a max chaos deck which I overpayed for 80% of so I literly have not funds to put in. So am I a bot farm? I am not aloud to use a bot for one accoutn in wild? My one account is what led this game to its current state? You wanna charge some dec to play in wild go for it. Even vouchers because unlike true bot farms I do have staked sps and I do eanr vouchers. Do to my health reasons who are you to tell me how I can play. I love my guild and most days entering brawls is all I can do because I physically feel like trash. And before you say you arent telling me how to play you actually are. You are lumping me in with people who have 100s or even 1000s of accounts who only take. You wanna know what I have sold in splinterlands? Some sps to get dec or when the airdrop was a thing and sps was at a decent price cards. Why card oh yea so I could have a better deck.
So because I have limitations and because actual bot farms where let to run rampamt for far to long a person like me is treated like trash because I cant afford rebellion right now. This also goes against the SPL ethos aggy pushed changing lives in 3rd world countries. You may ask how? well some would actually play wild due to low rent. But then you want to require 2x the sps so that is even more money. I am not saying people should get a free pass but 2x sps is to far. There are many other things talked about that could be done. Put the card penalty back in. Use CP but only owned. I know this would take dev time and most likely why we jumped right to 2x sps.
If you want to say that 2x sps will increase the price I think you sadly underestimate how many people will just walk away from this game. As they are already worn out from fatigue of things being promised and not delivered among other things.
I know nothing I said here matters and I will be mocked and drug through the dirt by a majority of the comments. But when is enough enough
Thanks for commenting. I know it isn't easy to voice dissent, but community comments from both sides of the fence are what will help this game move forward. I appreciate you taking the time to write this out.
I do love this game and want a brigth future for it. It is just hard an a hairline budget to get where you want to be. That isn't anyone's fault. However some of the changes that are good for the game and slow down the massive bot farms do sometimes hurt the small player. I am very thankful for this game. It has given me our guild which I love dearly and you. Who I consider to be a close friend of mine.
I agree, I have the same feelings, so I used your words. Hope you like it.
That is why I do love this community. People from different walks of life able to come together and share their thoughts. Even if our thoughts and opinions are on different sides of the fence. I wish I had 10% of the knowledge you do when it comes to Hive and Splinterlands. I appreciate your continued effort to keep a game many of us love alive and to again thrive!!!
It’s not that our views are different; what’s different is time horizon and perception of risk. At least that’s the way I feel. I don’t agree with Matt regarding the removal of league level caps. I have made my thinking visible too but it’s his game and his perception of economy. So you see, even whales don’t get their way all the time:)
Definately agree about the league level caps!!! I have truly have enjoyed this conversation. @ducecrypto is a close friend of mine and without this game I would have never met him. And after our chat here I would love to have further discussions with you in the future!!
I didn't see anything in his reply that mentioned you.
Indeed, the governance chooses its voters instead of the voters choosing the governance.
You read my mind about the whales issue and Splinterland does not care about us... I have had DEC-B sitting in my account collecting dust and how long has it been since this "GREAT IDEA OF DEC-B BEING IMPLEMENTED" has led to it having some value... I can't even sell it and there has been absolutely no updates on what's going on with DEC-B.. I am just disgusted how much $ I put into this game only to see that greed has taken over.. If it was not for players, Splinterlands would not exist but they are ungrateful individuals.
You and I and many others have been scammed out of thousands of dollars by deliberately dishonest manipulative lying conmen. That's the cold hard truth. These people deserve a class action lawsuit. This proposal was passed probably by multiple whale accounts owned by / connected with the team. The only other people who would vote for this are about as naive and stupid as could possibly be. And that goes for pretty much every other "stop the bots" nonsense proposals; everyone of which has wrecked the value of our assets more and more and none of which have solved the bot issue without also taking all value off the table for ordinary players who originally invested in cards under very different circumstances.
I get what you're trying to say here but as a krill in this ocean I feel even we will benefit by these changes, with fewer bots in wild the quality of the game will improve and more real players will be encouraged to join which will give room for cards and sps value will appreciate. Not to mention as the players running 100s of bot accounts will drop which will also help increasing the value of SPS token.
Omg! The people ...
@squirrelacus I think what you say matters. I hope you are doing well and glad you are here. On your thoughts, I would say that I'm sure Matt will analyze the data after this change and see if it meets his expectations. Therefore, I think one of 2 things will happen: 1) he is right and many botnets moved away and thus you will be earning more than you were earning - even with the fee or 2) he is only partially right and partially wrong, and the botnets move out, but you are still paying more than makes sense to pay.
Obviously is the first is the case, then you will be happy to pay the fee. If the second is the case, then I'm sure Matt will adjust things so that it does makes sense for you to pay.
NOTE: there are various ways to do this. But in order for him to know, he has to start somewhere. I would ask that you be patient, because you are the type of player that is certainly welcome to the game and someone we want around forever!!!
Dear @davemccoy and @yabapmatt, I value all ideas, which are discussed during the last month in order to get splinterlands on track.
In my opinion for every bot, that we get rid of with such meassueres we loose at least one or even two players.
I have a similar situation as @squirrelacus.
As the first staking requirements have been introduced, I had around 40k SPS. I rented 50k SPS per week and further increased my stake, but I had to step back from champion to diamond league in order to get any more rewards.
I increased my SPS stake now to nearly 100k. In addition I am renting between 50 and 75k depending on the price per week.
I invested around 4.000 $ in Rebellion. This may not sound much, but it was for me.
But the last changes to rewards, which led to further players leave made even me think of asset sales, which I did in the last days, when I sold cards, I seldomly play and my XBOT never plays.
I have lots of real life stuff ongoing. For gods sake I am not sick and its just my job and my family. I play my Brawls on Tier 5.
But if now the SPS requirements for Wild get doubled, this will kill my ranked play all over. I am not going to rent around 200k of SPS per week. This is just no affordable and I do not have the chance to stay lower in ranking, since leagues have vanished.
For me this maybe the final cut, to leave Splinterlands all over. How must this be for people, with less income and less stake than me.
In your hunt for bots, you are completely killing the userbase. Sorry to say, but thats my feeling right now.
Dude im sorry to say but you gotta be crazy spend 4000k on a dead game with sinking value of assets and token, rather get HBD and stake them
Lets say it this way. As I planned to do this and put the money aside was spring 2023, when it did not look that grim. The Rebellion cards are not the problem by they way. They hold their value quite good and the Promos and airdrops weight the loss quite well.
Problem is the rest and the small patches which are applied to the game dismantling it step by step.
It feels more to be in the GDR ( Germany Democratic Republic) with 5 year plans than beeing in an open market economy.
If rebellion cards are holding price, it's good, I'm not checking those, I seen all others sinking hard, my collection lost 80% of the value already
But yeah they are destroying the game step by step, if everything collapses so will rebellion cards, this proposal will just cut off all players who don't make 200 SPS per season which is impossible under gold or diamond with full SPS requirements met, can you see new players coming with this implemented?
No I cant and that is the problem.
For me it seems, the exisiting whales are changing everything to get as much out of the remains as possible as long as it goes. If this is the case, they know, that their assets will be not anything in a few month as well.
But I do not want to think that way and hope, its still done with the best intentions for the company and therefore for alle players.
There are better fixes for the Bot problematic than this one. At least there are better ones without that much coleteral damage for new players, which the company and the game need to stay afloat.
Focus now should be to implement a modus for new players. Maybe even with a battlepass, so the company earns some money and make it as easy as possible for new players to join and to have fun with the game.
Yea that's true, whales will support this, 2000dec is nothing for them, cut off a big players base so rewards are better, it's a win win for them, extract the most they can and cashout it before the sink
I agree, but we seen nothing to attract new players since forever I guess
This is exactly the problem. There's a saying ""Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die."
We are literally killing the game in order to stop people from using bots. I've just looked at my last 25 games and have only come across 2 match which there was definitely a botnet involved - of which I one exactly one game.
I'm getting so sick of this toxic community.
@kheldar1982 I appreciate the message.
However, I think you are making some assumptions that will not be true. I'm happy to discuss this with you if you want to have a direct message on discord.
I'll give you a brief outline so I don't take up too much of your time.
the number of bots that this will force to stop won't be anywhere near what you think. This is likely to mean more than 60K botnet accounts will stop playing.
the rewards for the remaining players will therefore go up, ie the ones like you that invest. I would imagine given your story that you will easily cover your extra cost of playing wild with just increased SPS rewards.
the way that your payout works is you don't HAVE to have a certain amount of SPS, in fact you can play at your same rating just fine with the amount of SPS you have now for sure. Obviously if they raise the staked needs, all that will do is lower the payout % across the board, but in reality EVERYONE is in the same boat as you. So the only people that will come out ahead of you versus where you were will be those that stake more than they were staking. The bottom line is you don't have to stake any more SPS to earn what you are earning now, and most likely you will be earning more because of the 60k bots leaving the system.
Finally I will say that I sympathize with your concern, and I don't want to see someone in your position leave over this. I think this will be a fantastic thing for the game, but also for YOU. The people that will get hurt will be the large botnets. Everyone else might have to adjust a little, but within a few seasons I think you will be earning more.
ps... if they can finally kill off the leaching from the botnets, then they can add back value and earnings. So not only will this be good for you in the short run, it also sets up a lot of potential in the future.
pps... If I am wrong, then please direct message me and I will pay the following season for you so you can play it for free. Like I said I don't think you or any "real" players are going to be upset when its had a chance to be live, but I'm happy to buy you another season permit if the first season doesn't work out.
I do not have any issues with 2k DEC or 40 Vouchers per Season. Its the doubling of SPS needs in combination with leagues gone that trouble me.
Maybe all must be worse first before it can become better like often in medicine.
All what I see is, that the changes made over the last month for sure hurt botnets, but they adapted somehow and are still there, while the true playerbase is dwindling.
Asset prices are in full downswing.
These meassueres are not helping. What is needed is more fun at gameplay or other incentives to buy assets.
We need a smooth start for new players.
But we do nothing in this direction. The new player experience is the worst since more than 2.5 years (the time I can tell).
By the way, why should I answer per DM to you? Here is an open conversation on our beloved blockchain so everyone can see it.
As long as it stays in a friendly manner I have no issues, discussing things here.
You don't have to discuss in Discord, I was just offering you that as an alternative means of communication as I'm not here that often.
Time will tell if this was a positive move or not. I say it is, you think it isn't. That's ok, we both will see together how it unfolds.
Have a nice day and thank you for the civil discussion.
How about you explain why players are still waiting on Nightmare packs as are they going to just sit on this??? Also, what was a the use of DEC-B? To steal the $ we put into it and now, there is absolutely no way of touching DEC-B let alone any updates on what will happen. However, let us continue bringing in new packs that just destroy any value of previous packs.
How the "payout for the real players that stay" is going to be up with "increased SPS rewards" while at the same time I'm asked to pay 2000 DEC I read that our daily grit rewards are slashed?
Nothing makes sense.
Oh, and another example: I have a RL friend that started playing with me at the same time. He only has vintage cards, only a few modern ones. He has saved 3000 SPS so far, so really few vouchers.
He just abandoned the game, unable to play with HIS cards. OWNED by them. Now he needs to pay a fee to play a game in which his assets are owned by him.
Nevermind. I don't even have the energy or patience to extend myself.
Can we just acknowledge some of the slew other things that will happen?@davemccoy,
Currently, the only way for a single (player) account to compete with bots is through the multiplier- cut that by half and the bots do better.
I do agree- there a dozens of simpler and more effective ways to achieve the stated goals but this.... well this proposal will have the opposite effect. Selling pressure on assets, preventing new engagement, forcing out current players, rewarding bots.
Obviously there are a lot of people that think your way, but there are also many people that think differently, including me.
To answer your questions:
new players are going to be incentivized to play Modern, that is the intent. The hellscape you refer to is currently being addressed by liquidity bot solution, and if they need more tools then they can change the +/- ratio, and also fix the reset. So this is a false argument imo, simply because they will figure out how to attract and retain NEW players in Modern and Wild format is irrelevant to that issue.
If we have such players that only want to play such a few amount of matches each season, then they are certainly in the minority. There are plenty of places where they can get a "few matches" without paying this fee, primarily Brawls or Tournaments. In addition, they can play Modern for FREE. So this argument is silly if you ask me.
The reward multiplier is not getting reduced, the amount of SPS required to be staked is rising. Those are 2 different things. So I definitely do not agree with your conclusion, the opposite would be true.
This will get rid of at least 60k of the 75k botted accounts. In fact I could see it getting rid of up to 65k. So this is wrong to say that botted accounts will benefit. The people that will benefit will be the ones that 1) have a lot of good cards an 2) stake more SPS than those that are left after all the botnets leave.
I realize some people don't want this to happen so they have created in their minds all the negative reasons why it will be bad. But in reality, that doesn't make those arguments true.
There's a reason why a lot of players support this too, and those players have old cards, SPS, new cards, invest in current sets, rent cards, play land, etc... If people just want to win an argument, or they want to talk themselves into this being bad, then its up to them. But if they want to see the truth an look a bit into the future, then they will see that all those players that support this were not crazy, greedy, stupid, or evil. We have a view that the leaching of the reward system was a drain on the economy that was unstainable and long overdue to stop. This will do that, and the game will be on solid footing after this is over.
I hope you come along for the ride, but I understand if you or others don't want to as well.
Ahhh, Dave. So simple, so naive.
While the other proposal (put bots back in Modern) does exist and while it may mitigate some of the nightmarishness of that format- it has it's own issues, so let's not engage in magical thinking but instead concentrate on this proposal.
I did not 'create in my mind' these reasons why it will be bad- these are real, actual reasons this will not achieve the stated goals. In fact, I never said it would be bad- in fact I believe it will be beneficial, for many. Accounts that don't own/rent cards or SPS but play many games, for example, will do really, really well.
talking to you on Discord, we are very far apart on quite a few things :)
I am more then willing to see how this plays out. Its just really sad that a good number of the changes that are made to combat bots do have adverse affects on the smaller player. I am hopeful we will see a turn around and I will be able to use my sps earnings from staking to again buy cards and grow my collection like I was able to in 2021. As always I love to hear your thoughts and inputs.