Thanks to hawksclaw.wordpress.com
There are more calls in the UK from the MCB (muslim council of Britain) to investigate the Conservative party for so called "Islamophobia". This comes on the back of recent investigations for "anti semitism" in the Labour party.
Racism and the hatred of minorities surely do exist in modern Britain as it does in the rest of the world and this obviously will encompass political parties too, as they are representations of the societies we live in.
Secular Democracy
Most, if not all, European democracies are secular. This means there is a separation between religious organisations and the workings of state. Religions are allowed to practice their faith freely but they are nor allowed to campaign for political office using their religion as a springboard. This safeguards, or should, the state from being controlled by one particular religion and the subjugation of others.
Phobias
Phobia is defined by wikipedia as:
A phobia is a type of anxiety disorder, defined by a persistent and excessive fear of an object or situation. The phobia typically results in a rapid onset of fear and is present for more than six months. The affected person will go to great lengths to avoid the situation or object, to a degree greater than the actual danger posed.
I'm not sure that the word"Islamophobia" is in fact the correct word to be used in relation to the phenomena of people being afraid of the increasing dominance of religious groups and their calls for what could be considered de facto "Blasphemy laws".
Is the fear really irrational?
Islamic Militant Groups
In recent times I'm sure everyone is aware of the increasing activity of Islamic militant groups. I know that they are not representative of the whole of Islam but they do follow the same theology from the same book.
In the last 10 years there have been many attacks across Europe aimed at journalists, politicians and others who critisize Islam. I'm sure everyone remembers the horrific attacks on the journalists of charlie hebdo. The cartoonists of the magazine of the same name had depicted muhammad in cartoons. Islam regards this as blasphemy and the cartoonists were sentenced to death by fatwa's from mosques in the middle east and radical mosques in Europe, including the UK. The Charlie hebdo attacks are the most publicised but there have been many attacks of this nature, on politicians and journalists and any other body or person who has deemed to have committed blasphemy against Islam.
There have been many surveys since those attacks that show that a majority of muslims have some sympathy with the idea's of the attackers, if not their methods!
Is the word "Islamophobia" just another plank in a process of trying to bring about "de facto" blasphemy laws to secular nations?
Can it really Be called a Phobia?
Can it really be justified, calling a concern about the retention of our liberal, secular society a phobia?
We have fought for hundreds of years to remove religious organisations from undue influence in our democracies? Fearing the return of democracy from the pulpit is surely a healthy worry?
Blasphemy
I fear that our liberal values are now being used by religious groups to subvert our democracies. Any laws on anti semitism and iIslamophobia are just de facto blasphemy laws aimed at stopping any criticism of those religious groups and their activities.
Journalists are now in fear whenever they think of disseminating a story about certain religious groups. Not just the fear of death but the fear of censure. A democracy isn't truly free unless it has a free press and citizens able to talk freely, without fear about any subject that is of concern to them.
Allowing any group, to in effect silence legitimate concern about their activities and prevent criticism of them is a very dangerous path to follow.
I think what applies to one group should apply to another. All my life i have laughed at comedy that is aimed at christian religions, the life of Brian and Monty python and the holy grail come to mind. Yet there has never been any serious attempt to stop these comedies that I'm aware of. Are they christianphobic?. Of course they aren't.
Criticism is healthy
It is surely only natural to question groups who have some values that seem contrary to those of the population as a whole. I'm sure people will be aware that some religious groups aren't as progressive as others in their regard of other minorities and things like women's rights.
The Christian church has been challenged for some time now on it's views towards the issues mentioned above. Although it has found this difficult, it has accepted that society has moved forward and has not sought out laws or special status to stop enquiry and criticism of it's values and actions.
Vigilance
Secular nations must remain vigilant to any erosion of their values and status. While religious freedom must be observed a balance must be struck. I fear that these claims of "Phobia's" are just a smokescreen behind which to hide religious intolerance.
It's not irrational to worry about a return to religious intolerance and it should never be a crime. Nor should anyone be censured for speaking the truth, even if that truth is critical of religion.
It took a log time and millions have died in the struggle to be free of religious dogma. Some religious groups have elements that believe their should be no separation between religion and state. These are dangerous to our liberal, secular democracies. Saudi Arabia comes to mind and sharia.
Protections
The freedom to practice ones religion however one wishes should be upheld. But should it be upheld at any cost? Even when that freedom infringes on others rights to live in a secular society, free from religious intolerance?
The modern world is becoming smaller. We all need to respect each other and be more tolerant. But that's a "two way street". I feel it's the religious who need to learn to live with others. We have challenged our own traditional religions on all manner of issues and religion has had to bend to accommodate the wishes of society, not the other way around.
Are we now to reverse that progress and allow some religions to dictate whether we criticise them or not?
This worry is valid and definitely not a phobia.
Thank you for reading steemians feel free to comment below..
The brakes came on my reading in the beginning area when talking about Islamaphobia.
This statement is to imply that muslim terrorists bombers, for example, are doing so because of something they read in a book instead of something they have seen in their homelands in places like Iraq, Lebanon, Afganistan, Syria, Libia and Yemen to name but a few.
Your suggestion seems to me like saying Irish Catholic terrorists got their idea to blow up London from the bible.
No The Catholic problems with the IRA were over territory and nothing to do with religious doctrine.
If you read the Quran and hadiths and the life of the prophet and his companions you will see what i mean.
I think terrorists do things for lots of complex reasons, but they use the teachings of muhammad to justify those acts. The problem isn't with muslims per se but with the theology they are taught. Yes, some cause terror due to wars in their homelands but that doesn't explain British born and bred killing their own.
You can't get away from the fact that these people are trying to emulate muhammad. They expressly killed people for drawing cartoons of muhammad, how is that in any way connected to wars in the middle east?? Its not. It's connected to Islamic ideology that denies free speech and punishes blasphemers with the death penalty. If you think Islamists cause terror just because of foreign policy, you are wrong. I've studied the subject for 15 years.
Your comment about the bible shows your disconnect I'm sorry. Irish catholics were fighting for a united Ireland, nothing to do with religion. Although i'd say the catholic religion is also full of corruption and responsible for a lot of pain.
I don't understand why that comment is incorrect? it's just a statement of fact. They do interpret the same book and sunnas, believe me.
I understand that people have a knee jerk reaction to this subject but i find it easier to remain open minded. I have no axe to grind i have both shia and sunni in my family. Each see each other as apostates and has torn our family in two!
We don't have foreign policy engagements with many of the jihadists who fight. They come from all around the world and fight under the banner of Islam. Next you'll tell me that Muslim Brotherhood are legitimate political party.
It's simplifying a complex situation to say foreign policy is the cause of Islamic terror, it's not.
If you "breaks came on" at the start then you wouldn't have read that my post wasn't about Islam but any religious group that wants special protection status. I'm talking about freedom. My comment about "the book" was merely commenting that the justification comes from the same place. The point is that most religions have gone through a transformation and the passages in their holy scriptures are not used anymore as they were abrogated.My point is, we have to challenge this in a unified and honest manner if we wish to get this right.
Thank you for your comment.
Perhaps you have not read the crap in the Old Testament. Same god of Abraham.
For the record, as that mention of your family may be intended to give your opinion greater weight, thus far my travels have taken me to Moroc, Algeria, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan and Afganistan. So the islamic culture is known to me in many forms.
My take is that both the Irish "problems" and the Islamic struggle were instigated by colonialism. Do you think you would send your best soldier to be intentionally blown up or would you send some dimwit that believes 64 vestal virgins await him? Is that so radically different than having your christian chaplin blessing "your boys" before sending them off to kill or be killed? Did you know that "God is with us" was on German Military belt buckles in WWII? Sounds eerily simular to "In God We Trust" doesn't it? Do you think Hitler believed in god? Do you think those on the board of the Federal Reserve do?
Make no mistake, this is a war. The difference is that this enemy, as opposed to the Irish, are all in... take no prisoners. There will be no negotiated peace unless their lands are left to them to rule how they wish to govern. Yet the Petro Dollar cannot allow that.
This reply is meant to explain my.position. It is not meant to change your mind or continue this debate as we both seem pretty entrenched in our positions.
You may enjoy colonialism exposed in the short video below.
Sincerly wishing you Peace & Love in your life.
Blaming present generations for the ills of past colonisers is very short sighted. Foreign policy is not the reason for islamic exceptionalism I'm afraid. The quran is.
And, no. My comment about my family isn't to give anything any "weight", i don't need it, my arguments stand alone. It was supposed to show you that Islam isn't one united body. Most of the wars in the middle east are shia v sunni, nothing to do with colonialism.
Your comment about the petro dollar has some weight.
I have read the old testament. It's the reason there is a new one. it's called abrogation and enlightenment, something Islam is yet to do and what it must do if there is to be peace.
I have a salafi mosque on my street, i don't need to travel to see militant Islam.
I doubt very much your travels are that recent. I lived in Afghanistan as a kid. I couldn't do it now.
Your comment about people being blessed before battle is a touch disingenuous. Justification for crimes against humanity s lifted directly from the holy Quran and hadiths. You can't equate that to a stupid banner on a dollar bill or soldiers hoping if they die to go to heaven. The quran and hadiths tell them to kill infidels and take their women and children as sex slaves, time after time, amongst thousands of other violent and oppressive gems.
Why should we let a religion treat women in such a manner in the modern age, wherever they are?
it sounds like you think they are right to do as they do?
My post was about the silencing of free speech by using blasphemy law. Maybe you think they have a right to kill people for sins of others but thats how feuds are formed. if you go back way before 9/11 you will find this happening, again and again. Their aim is for sharia to dominate the world, read their literature, it tells you. Islamists from Afghanistan have been shipping heroin to Europe long before 9/11. and they would tell you the aim is to break down western societies. It's very naive to believe this is just a reaction to "colonisation".
The ottoman empire slaughtered 1,000,000 Christian Armenians 100 years ago, for being Christian. That wasn't over colonisation..Read the history of the ottoman empire. The west doesn't hold a monopoly on bloody colonising. The Ottomans slaughtered and colonised the middle east and had designs on Europe! As they do now.
If you think Islam is really just a religion of peace then that's your perogative. if you think they are a bastian of womens rights and minorities thats also your perogative also. But please don't make out this is the fault of colonialism! This has been happening for 1400 years, read the history. The middle east was once Christian. Islam was only stopped when it attacked Europe. Don't shift the blame for their actions to me. i have never colonised anyone. The rich colonised them. It sounds like you endorse their methods and think it is "our" own fault..
If there is a war to be had, i will fight to defend, i don't want my grandchildren living under black flags.
Wars in the middle east are the struggle between shia and sunni and western powers have taken a side. The sunni. But they didn't create the division, that happened in the 4 generations after muhammad.
I agree we will never agree. I have studied the history, not relied on nostalgic trips in a by gone era.
lets agree to drop the subject. I have to correct you when you are wrong though. I live in a salafi neighbourhood...
BTW, I'm not a christian either. i believe in a higher power but not a story made by men.
Have a great day and hope we have the chance to talk over a less divisive subject..
Guess you didn't watch the video. It exposes U$ Colonialism from 2001 till the present. If you think colonialism is restricted to ancient history you are more asleep than first suspected.
Didn't get past the above quote so can't really blame you for missing the 2 minute video. 😎
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I didn't watch it as i understand US exceptionalism and the wars it is waging around the world. But what has that to do with the children of Manchester?
Religions want to force their will on others. I'm afraid you can't get away from fact that the imperialism you mention is driven by mega wealthy liberal elite and nothing to do with the citizens of a nation.. Especially when the political infrastructure has been hijacked so the citizens get no choice on foreign policy. People voted for Trump in the US to keep out an even bigger war monger in Clinton.
Like i told you at the start i have studied this for over 15 years in an advisory capacity. I know what imperialism is and i know all sides have through history, took turns at the colonisation game. You don't think the Ottomans did it??
No one is colonising islamic countries. The rich are fighting wars that benefit them financially and ideologically.
I think it may be you asleep. I'll go back to my previous comment. If you are determined to say, "X are doing it, so it's OK for Y to do it"!
then the feuds will continue forever.
I'm not so sure you understand Islamic exceptionalism and the dogma and literature that keeps it striving for a world caliphate.
Do you just think Islam has only been waging war since colonisation? It hasn't. it's been doing it for 1400 years. It's how the middle east and swathes of Africa became Islamic when they were originally Christian.
How do you think all this happened? Right up to the doorstep of Europe 100 years ago? Because contained in Islamic literature there are passages that tell them they are superior and the rest are infidels at best, or pigs or monkeys. These same books tell them not to stop until sharia encompasses the world. It tells them to not associate with others but to convert them. The same books tell them to throw homosexuals from rooftops and that women and children are a mans property. This "religion" needs to go through the enlightenment and abrogate those passages from their books.
What you see in Iraq, or Afghanistan, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Yemen is Shia fighting with sunni. One supported by Iran and others and sunni Saudi and others. Its a sectarian war and the liberal wealthy elite chose to help one side due to trade interests.
The problem is the religions fault in failing to keep up with progression and not removing the passages from its holy scripture thus allowing fundamentalists to use them to promote Islamic exceptionalism.
Don't you listen to them? They don't quote colonialism they quote islamic scripture.
If you think that withdrawing from all Islamic nations will solve it all, that's another issue. It will leave a lot of dead in its wake.
Thanks for the convo, lets not descend into calling names or questioning each others honesty eh? I say things how i see them and you yours. I'll apologise here and watch your video.
I loosely agree with you on some things. However i don't think you can blame ordinary citizens for the actions of governments that were long ago hijacked by a wealthy liberal elite, giving citizens no real say. Can we agree on that at least??
About as much as an Italian pope has to do with the Irish. The Irish felt more Catholic than English as the Muslim lad feels more allied to their birth culture than the place they were born. My point of the video was to show you colonialism is alive and well and not some historical artifact.
You however seem to want to press your hate for Islam than to seek any real dialogue.
So this ends here for me even though you will probably want to get your last bit of hate speech in. Go for it. Hoped this would not come to an unfollow.
May you find love and compassion for all sentient beings, even those who hold the Koran as sacred.
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I try to avoid religious topics, especially those scrutinizing beliefs other than my own but...
I really don't think there is such a thing as Islamaphobia. There are a lot of vices associated with Islam posing a great danger to our lives and culture that would be stupid to ignore.
I do not in any way support discrimination against Muslims but it'll only continue if genuine fears are not addressed. Islam needs an internal reform
I couldn't agree with you more. Abrogation of some of the more violent and oppressive verses would be a great start. It's a very emotive subject but shying away from it will only cause more problems..