Hello SPIers, today we talk about the DHF and more specifically for return proposal. I think alot of people of never heard of this are have heard of it and dont really know what it is.
What is the Return Proposal?
In the simplest terms, the amount of HP being voted on the return proposal is the minimum amount a proposal asking for funding has to get, to get funded.
There is currently 35.4M HIVE POWER voted on the return proposal, this means anyone asking for funding needs to get at least 35.4M HIVE POWER in support/votes to get funded.
The DHF (Decentralized HIVE Fund)
The DHF was created to fund the expansion, innovation and promotion of the HIVE blockchain. On paper, it's a really good idea. If someone thinks they can add value to the blockchain, they can create a good plan, roadmap and show how their idea will benefit the blockchain, they are welcome to write a proposal and seek funding. If enough people with enough HP agree and vote on that proposal, anyone could get funded.
Sadly, abuse is always afoot when free money is being offered
I dont want to step on anyone's toes but why does Splinterlands get $2777 for 180 days for a cool $500k. Why are we paying $85 a day for 354 days for a Pinmapple map thats basically a map showing where all our dead HIVE users are from? $30K funding a year for a website that costs $100 a year to host seems expensive. Maybe someone is working on it "full-time". I could pick many more, at least 5-6 more but HIVE a small blockchain and chatting shit can seem personal when it's really just about the numbers so 2 examples is enough.
How do most funded proposals add value back in HIVE? I could go on and on. I've deleted about 300 words from this post because my views are not of everyone thats is invested with SPI but why are we funding 5-6-year for-profit projects that have been losing ground for 4 years already? Empty promises and sheep that follow.
We come to HIVE for the freedom it offers and then join a cult and become a follower. We pay to keep the lights on for a few for-profit projects and they collect the profits. Sounds like "too big to fail". Splinterlands has the potential but they've already sold millions of dollars worth of NFT gaming cards, so what's $500k going to do for them? Let them create and sell a new deck are some new megaical space land are something?
The DHF is decentralized yes but how decentralized is something when there is a small userbase and we have whales that control millions of HIVE working together? Blocktrades controls a 25M HP vote by itself. Not saying they abuse, just pointing out that 1 person has that influence. You rub my back and I'll rub your yours between friends is harmless but if you both own millions of HIVE and have a large influence over people, it's not so harmless and becomes very grey but it's manipulation no question.
How to make $210k a day from the DHF!
The current cost to buy 35M HIVE is $6.5M. Someone could spend $6.5M on HIVE, make proposal to suck HIVE dry and collect $210k per day (current unused DFH daily budget) for 31 days to recoup their money. After that, they could just keep collecting $210k per day. The use 10-20% of the money to buy more HIVE each day to ensure their proposal is always getting funded with a massive self vote.
There you guys, it would cost $6.5 million to break HIVE, lol
HIVE's total marketcap is $85M and the DHF daily budget is $230k per day, we currently pay out $20k a day to proposals. To give you an idea of how fooked the DHF is, if it paid out the max amount for 1 year, it would pay out $85M which is the same as the current marketcap.
Use your HP and vote!
The main difference between whales and us plebs is whales are very aware of what is happening with HIVE and they use their HP. Us plebs with a few thousand are less HIVE POWER dont care so much about voting on witnesses are proposals because whats the point? Right?
WRONG!! Plebs outnumber whales by a mile and together we have a voice.
We should (I think) make it harder to get HIVE funding.
Some numbers, even if they have no impact can speak louder than others and whales see these numbers. To give an example of whales vs the people
Hivewatchers/Spaminator Proposal has a vote value of 40M HP from 200 users
Return Proposal has a vote value of 35M HP from 704 users
It's easy to see if 1 user equalled 1 vote, this project would not be funded and many others as well but its not that way so what can we do?
Go check it out!!
Im sorry if im coming off as trying to get you to vote. You, honestly do you. I personally just dont like the idea that for-profit projects that are failing on their own are asking for a handout. I can think of 10 great ideas that would take money off HIVE to invest with the goal of consistently buying back HIVE to burn with profits. I mean, I wouldn't even be that hard and we could burn millions of HIVE a year if something were well funded.
My aim for the post is more to make people aware of the return proposal than anything. I think alot of people are not aware of it and we're paying for some crazy stuff. I've not even spoken of the HIVE-sponsored rally car are digging water wells in Ghana through the oddly named "value plan".
Anyways, I hope a few people that are seeing this post are learning about the return proposal for the first time. Maybe you've heard about it but never knew what it was alot about.
Thanks for taking the time to check out this post today.
Getting Rich Slowly from June 2019
| Token Name | Main Account | Link to hive-engine |
|---|---|---|
| SPI token | @spinvest | SPI |
| LBI token | @lbi-token | LBI |
| Top XV token | @spinvest | XV |
| Eddie Earners | @eddie-earner | EDS |
| EDS miners | @eddie-earner | EDSM |
| EDS mini miners | @eddie-earner | EDSMM |
| EDS-vote | @eds-vote | n/a |
| EDS DOLLAR | @eds-d | EDSD |
| DAB token | @dailydab | DAB |
| DBOND token | @dailydab | DBOND |
| RUG token | @rugem | RUG |
Stay up to date with investments, and fund stats and find out more about SPinvest in our discord server
I had already voted a while ago and had already written about the fact that Hivewatcher costs more than it brings. Mind you, I think it not only costs more than what it generates in downvotes, I think it is detrimental to Hive and has a negative effect on the activity of many users.
I will check again if my other accounts follow this when voting, even if they only have a few HP. As you say, every HP counts.
I just have to find out where I can set it so that they vote the same as my main account.
No question. It does some good. It does, however, far more damage ... And the whales who vote to keep it active are complicit in not holding themselves accountable to this hard reality.
Remember back on STEEM when we had voting bots? I know the Hivewatchers guys were part of that. Voting bots are a taboo subject but they gave STEEM a really good use case, one HIVE has never had.
Yep. I remember. In my last post, I even touched on that a bit. Specifically, my brief time being personally associated with Hivewatchers - focused on voting bots in the early days of the Hive blockchain ... They just "changed their spots," and morphed into something else ...
The lack of clarity on establishing a "black and white" (again, touched on in my final post) focus of Hivewatcher's efforts, along with outright hypocrisy in ignoring ... "abuse" ... brought that to an end.
You can add a proxy account (your main account) for your smaller accounts on hive.blog. Scroll to the bottom of this page:
https://wallet.hive.blog/~witnesses
Thx.
I found it in the hivekeychain App, most Accounts I have added before, but I added 2 or 3 Accounts 2 days ago.
👍
The thing I struggle with, and have struggled with is the number of "for profit" ventures started via the DHF that basically turn into failures that only "make a profit" because they are being underwritten by DHF payments.
I have nothing against someone with an idea using the DHF to get "seed money" for some venture... but presubaly the idea of starting some sort of business is to have the business make money, not to have it eternally subsidized while it is actually a loser, if left to its own devices.
I always felt like Splinterlands had loads of potential to become something really big; to become a sort of "Magic The Gathering of the blockchain."
The "problem" with Hive is that far too many people end up "thinking internally;" that is, we're this self-contained ecosystem that doesn't really encourage people to push their Hive-based projects out into the greater world as part of building them.
=^..^=
Posted using The BBH Project
👍
I agree about your general points. Splinterlands was drawing many users from outside at one stage, I seem to remember it being top of the blockchain gaming ranks and accounting for a large amount of activity on Hive. I don't understand what has happened since - there has been investment in cards and tokens, that seem to have dwindled in value.
I'm wondering if this is a similar scenario to Steemit where there seemed to be a "let the good times roll" to expansion, rather than understanding the four year cycle, keeping a tight organisation and planning for the low value phases of the four year or so cycle.
When things are going well, a certain "euphoric blindness" seems to set in, and people pile into promising projects like the good times will never end, as you suggest.
A lot of people "went stupid" on Steemit... after all, the token went from less that seven cents to over seven dollars in about six months. I think it's always wise to keep in mind what "fair value" looks like...
I'm just hoping Hive will find its way back to the $0.50-$0.75 range, which is perhaps a fairer valuation, given all the things that have actually been built here. I just wish people would grok that they need to promote those things outside Hive's borders...
=^..^=
Thankfully the DHF and the return proposal are making a lot more headlines these days. I wrote about it recently and I’ve seen a number of other posts about it. It’s really important that more people support it so that we can remove some of these bloat proposals. I think since more people have noticed it, the funding for it has increased by a few million. If I recall it was at 26 million for a while. Now sitting at 34 is great!
One of the odd things I’ve noticed is that if I try to take support away from a proposal it doesn’t seem to work. It’s been a few months since I’ve tried it I did give it a try before and it wouldn’t let me.
Hmm, that does sound odd.
But yea, lots more attention on the DFH is good. I wrote a post about it a few months back but seen @dbooster recently wrote a post and thought i'd keep the ball rolling.
As you say the smaller HP holders do need to be more aware of the impact they can have, no matter where you are make sure you use your voting power where you can, if you dont participate you cant moan when things dont go your way
Exactly but many people will moan, haha.
Seems cheap enough !LOLZ !BBH !DOOK
Not sure how long it would last, HIVEs marketcap is only $87M.
Crazy to think the DHF daily budget is $230k, hahaha
@pepetoken likes your content! so I just sent 1 BBH(66/100)@spinvest! to your account on behalf of @pepetoken.
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I can't see Value Plan in the proposals. Where is that funding coming from?
They do short proposals, they've took around $600k from HIVE. I think the last one was $10k a day for 15 days.
@blanchy has some good posts about value plan if you want to know more.
Yes, I find them very informative. I see that Value plan now has another proposal out.
Hey man, I am quite new to Hive. Where can I get information about the SPI token and its use case?
Welcome to HIVE, i could give you the intro post but it was wrote over 5 years ago when we were on STEEM. Best thing to do is check through the blog posts.
SPI tokens a fully backed tokens, we've been operating for over 5 years, we offer a 95% buy back for any amount at any time and run a few project under SPI
I'm aggressively stacking HP as much as I can given I can't really afford to buy with fiat but it'll never be enough to even remotely catch up with the base level interest whales make each day.
It's so important for everyone to get involved and understand the platform they are using and the power they have in their accounts.
I'm a hive witness supporting the blockchain please consider voting for me.
100% agree, i converted a bunch of BTC a few months back myself. Stack it while its cheap
Crazy to see that one year of full DHF payments would be the same as the total market cap of Hive. Man.. I noticed some stuff shifted in the funded category, maybe thanks to your post..
Well done, I already voted the return proposal a few months ago but before that, I also didn't know what it was. It's good more people are writing about it so more learn about this proposal's existence.
Also, enlightening to see the number of votes, I never checked it but it's good to realise that we can get it up much higher!
“Crazy to see that one year of full DHF payments would be the same as the total market cap of Hive.”
No wonder Hive has been crashing past year while many other crypto’s have gone up. This is insane how much the budget is.
This..
!PIMP
!PIMP
HBD stabilizer is wrecking the HBD TO HIVE ratio. When they started, they stated that the value of HBD in circulation would never exceed 20% of the value of HIVE marketcap. They've increased 2-3 times sense.
There are plenty of ways HIVE could get wrecked. haha
The more I read, the more I wonder if that whole DHF thing has ever been good for Hive long term. Seeing how much gets cashed out and often not even by projects anyone knows here..
I think it's a sad point but I'm happy to see more people are getting aware of the return proposal..
Facts!
I check all the numbers, alot of funded proposals have less voters than teh return proposal.
I struggle with the for-profit applications - wouldn't be so bad if these were loans.
What happened with Splinterlands, what's the analysis, why are we throwing more money at it?
I read somewhere that a Splinterlands spokesperson was saying if they didn't get DHF support they would "have to go to another blockchain". If it's possible to make a sustainable business elsewhere, why not go and do it?
As a more general comment, few proposals seemto have a strong business case with numbers and reporting is abysmal, if it exists at all.
Its like we paying to keep them in operation, wages, servers, etc. I never really understood Splinterlands. If ValuePlan can collect $200k for whatever, we should get $100k and start a business that generates actual profits. It would never get voted, would make too much sense. lol
Awesome to see your post. I reblogged it and I will make yet another one in a few weeks. We need to keep pushing to inform people of this. As I write this comment, the return proposal is now past 36m. Up up up! More people need to blog on this.
sweet, was 35.5M when i wrote this. We'll soon be at over 40M.
Your post inspired mine btw 😘
I have to step in because there is a bit of misinformation you are pushing
Without getting into what "value" different funded projects bring, let me just say how this will not work. If this happens, hive stakeholders, myself included will have 1 month to vote on return proposal to stop this from happening
It is not easy to buy 35M hive from the market :) Why don't you give it a try? I recently help purchase 1M hive for the sps.dao, so I know how hard it is to buy 1M hive, let alone 35M
That said if someone does buy 35M hive from the market, I will invite you to my yacht for a dinner, because I will be able to afford it :)
Cheers!
PS. You did mention that "you do you, universe will do universe"; thank you for that. It's a deep thought.
Hello, yep im aware buying up 35M HIVE might be hard and would certainly increase the price. I bought 350k HIVE a couple of months back within 20 minutes and had no problems but 35M might be different. And yep, im sure the return proposal would significantly increase if someone were to try this.
I look forward to having dinner with you in the future. 😁
So the concern was unfounded. That’s all. I am glad we are aligned.