Riftwatchers Revised DAO Proposals
2 years ago in #splinterlands by splinterlands (79)
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Again, hugely appreciated the effort from the dev team to make things right and to closely follow the company mission 😍
What i cannot see here is a statement about future sells, and how will the presale supply be determined in the forthcoming events. I'd like to underline that if we pass the 4b proposal we will have 60 blocks eligible for RW presale, but likely, this can become a standard rule as previously stated. I could be ok with that, but at the same time i can't find any info about the maximum amount of transactions that could fit in a single block here in HIVE blockchain.
This lead to a forced acceptance of a new uncertainty layer about future presale bonus supply, will it be the anticipated amount (sales goes slow and it will sell in more than 3 min)? Will it be a little bit more, like this time? Or will it be a much much more (Sales goes wild and double or more transactions are processed in the 60 blocks)?
I expect some clarification around this issue in the future, but at the time the dev team has my full trust and i will vote Y on all proposals.
EDIT: the issue i highlighted it's quite complicated and i do not expect an immediate answer on that, just to take it into consideration. Let me explain a little bit deeper:
Assume X is the max amount of transactions in a single block, than 60X is the maximum transactions that can fit into a presale event. Nonetheless, every single transaction can involve any number of items, thus to anticipate the maximum supply of presale bonuses there will be the need to add an hard cap on the maximum item purchasable per single transaction.
Max supply of presale bonuses = 60 * X * hard cap
this is a solution but it will be bothersome for large buyers, are we going to distress the fattest investors? Is it even a good idea? Still, if we don't do that and a future event goes mad, and the anticipated supply of the promo ultracool card is 500k but after 3 mins there is the need to print 3M of it what a distress will it be for large and small investors? I don't really have an answer on it, i would leave things like they are now on that aspect but i really like the idea to give every human the possibility to participate in a presale.
Another solution is to avoid providing info about which is the probability that each item brings a bonus, and calculate it after the presale by simply dividing its supply by the total item sold. Which seems fair, but at the same time reduce the FOMO effect on people, so is it even a good idea? maybe yes... but i really would like to know the dev opinion around it
I am voting YES to all these proposals. I agree completely its a question of community values. I hope everyone else does too. Its ok to make a mistake, but how you resolve a mistake says a lot about your character. We've been part of a great community that has been built over the last 4+ years, I hope we continue for 40 more.
I vote for
``NOTE- if Proposal 3 and Proposal 4 both pass a user would have the option to get refunded by the DAO and see the pack burnt or be refunded by Splinterlands. It would be a choice the refund requester would make.´´
this is a bad joke, isn't it?
then these people would even determine our economy wtf? so the people who paid nothing in the end have more power over the game than the people who paid money.......
I'm in the "manually entered my amount of packs to buy and the voucher textbox to enter the number of vouchers never even popped up" group.
Personally, I care more about my bonus packs than I do about whether or not they're counted as presale packs. I'd be fine if they were general sale packs tbh.
1 - The 500k limit should be honored as much as possible but minimal pack increases should be fine. This is not even 1% increase. YES
2 - I have personally experienced the voucher textbox not showing up. I have inputted the numbers I wanted to purchase, and no voucher input box appeared at all (I think you needed to click out of the textbox or press tab to make it appear initially - which has been now fixed). Clicking buy and reading the confirmation box did not mention any bonus packs so redid the purchase but still didn't get it so I just bought the packs straight up.
Anyways, I personally could care less if I get promo packs or not but compared to #1, a 2.6% promo pack increase isn't too bad. The bottom line is I just want the capability to use my vouchers that would have been used in the presale to be honored and get me my bonus packs (presale packs or not). A self-serving YES.
3 - This is a given. The instant jump to general sale would leave a bad taste in anyone's mouth after giving them false hope that they got in the presale so I'm all for refunds. YES
4a - Full refunds for those who want it as long as they are affected by the presale > gensale issue. Otherwise, I don't know what the refund is for but I guess it's their right to ask for one. YES
4b - Minimal pack increases are fine but we're talking about a 10%? increase here. BIG NO
After seeing the numbers, I think all are fine except the 3 minute one.
No increase in the print of the card it ruins the whole purpose of being limited availability, it should stay as stated. Everyone had the same fair chance, if by some way you screwed up it's on you, plain and simple. No one is gonna come and print some more nfts in their collection if you miss a mint or come and refund you if you swap with a huge slippage some tokens on a DEX. The voucher thing is already taken into consideration and will probably be fixed for the next sale (you still could have taken 2 seconds to look what you are entering, you cant expect to spam buttons like a zombie and do great - wake up). Stop crying and prepare better for next time.
and if the voucher box didn't appear as was the case for some?
Don’t you know you should get it ? Couldn’t you refresh the page for a second ? Don’t you know in advance how many packs you should get with the bonus and that you should enter vouchers, please I am expressing my opinion not gonna argue with everyone that disagrees, good luck with the next sale.
As the box didn't appear for some, I guess it was assumed the bonus packs would be included.
Some refreshed and still no bonus box.
It's obvious there was a bug in this functionality, and I'm glad to see the community currently voting in favour.
4b- We would like to increase the number of packs eligible for pre-sale rewards to allow anyone that purchased packs within the first 3 minutes (60 blocks). This would be a ~10% increase to the total pre-sale packs and resolve 60% of the transactions and 81% of the financial considerations of the presale refund requests.
This part isnt fair to the people who saw it was over 500k packs and decided not to buy because of the rules set up before hand. It also isnt really fair for the people who did things correctly to balloon their promo supply by 10%
I think the refunds should come from Splinterlands but id be fine with them coming out of the dao as well. I still dont know why this is even a thing when people knew a week+ in advance the exact time they needed to be in front of the computer and if it sold out faster than you thought then thats YOUR fault not anyone who was prepared.
Also the whole forth proposal is a lil messed up and so is even putting any of this to a vote when the splinterlands team and their alts have enough sps to swing the vote which ever way they want. Its an illusion that we actually have a choice.
Welcome to the world of DAO's. Its all a centralized facade!
its true it might "not be fair" to those people but honestly those people didnt got hurt at all. If you didnt participate in the presale you only got to see your sps go from 0.083 to 0.092, maybe got a node or even bought up more Rws packs. So to me where theres no harm, theres no fault.
I say fair game and it's up to the person to realize if they used vouchers or not. Everyone had the same chance and was in the same boat why give them kickback? My vote would be it is what it is and it was the same for everyone and in that case it's all fair game.
If we give people who didn't enter vouchers correctly the chance to still get Bonus Packs. We should also accept Proposal 4b. Because without entering Vouchers They saved time and got in front of people who did enter vouchers and have been kicked out of the presale.
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I'm not in favor of retroactively changing the terms of sale. I know Splinterlands has done this several times before. But if I had a chance to vote, I will vote against this type of behavior
3 )Yes
Buyers have the right to request a refund from DAO (not from the company that makes 0 profit in RW presale) if they are negatively affected by the website mistake.
It is what it is at this point, the only material change here is that the proposal is broken into separate proposals. Which is fantastic, until you get to #4. 4A and 4B are mutually exclusive. The only reason to put those together is to play head games with us all. See, 4a, is an obvious yes. But, 4b is the most contentious part of this whole thing. Who would not be OK with people getting refunds from SPL? But, that has absolutely nothing to do with increasing the window of time and hence breaking the commitment of what was promised as the terms of the pre-sale. The only way that 4b doesn't pass now is if the DAO decides to also screw people out of refunds from the company. Well played, Aggy. Well Played!!
Not quite, Proposal 3 states the DAO is refunding the packs anyway, you can cast your vote against inflating and that's it, no one is screwing anyone if it doesn't pass.
I'm going to throw my printer out of the window to celebrate when I get a Runi whitelist spot. However, if I don't get a whitelist spot, I will keep my printer and continue using it.
This feels like it's supposed to be satire, but i am too dumb to get it.
The dev team deserves a truckload of respect in how they've handled this. I've never seen any entity put their money where their mouth is like this game. It was also great to see where certain parts of the community fall. I personally want no one to purchase something here and get something other than they thought they purchased. It's unfortunate there are separate issues to vote on, especially if certain whales vote themselves bonus packs but vote against those of us that were seconds late because we entered the correct number of packs.
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BEER.Lets try to keep the community happy and together, lets face it, 10% inflation on a promo card its nothing. In a year we wont even remember this.
I vote yes.
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for me everything is a YES except the last one...4b is a NO ..i believe it is too complicated
i also understand the problems that the community faced but a 10% increase is something i believe is not fair for all of us who made their purchases in time and by taking into consideration 500K total pre-sale packs
So, essentially, DAO will take the loss for the refunds? Hmmm...
EDIT: Ok, I've just seen there is a 4a option too. :)
yaba eg has waited extra until the presale is over and then bought comfortably and he has needed 2.33 minutes, how do you get the idea that you should extend the presale to 3 minutes? makes no sense to me!
if someone is slower than someone who waited for it to be over, then that person overslept or was not prepared.
https://hiveblocks.com/tx/41ddd6e73021f268918a48c74e43e2b97d979cf4
that obviously goes far beyond compensation, that already goes in the direction of gifts. and that must not be in my opinion that gifts are distributed here at the expense of those who have done everything right!
For me after the countdown was over the page started to load and it took ~2Minutes until I was able to get to the shop page (My connection was fine). Looking into Discord after the presale it seems like I was not the only one with this problem. I can understand that most people vote against the proposal. But I think if it was you having that problem you would think it's unfair too.
I hope for future sales we can come up with a similar solution like Chaos Legion Presale. We should also think about people who have to work and can't be ready, when presale goes live.
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If we give people who didn't enter vouchers correctly the chance to still get Bonus Packs. We should also accept Proposal 4b. Because without entering Vouchers They saved time and got in front of people who did enter vouchers and have been kicked out of the presale.
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I think I will be voting no on all proposals. I would like to see a bigger fix going forward. It's quite clear primarily whales cleared out the presale, there should be a hard cap of x packs (say the minimum needed for the first airdrop?) per account in the first 24 hours of a presale. Yes some unscrupulous people might find somewhat of a way around but goodness me, only between 1,303 and 1,322 people deserve free access to the promo? I for one say no.
I like 1 part of 4 that Splinterlands can use for promotions and since a good chunk goes to them that was not accorded its neutral enough and could be a positive
Do not like the 10% increase in Cap for that condition though so 3 makes sense
However in exchange it comes out from the Dao which I don't like so against it
So lean towards taking 4 as Is than seeing the Dao lose out for this since it comes from the players wallets with no net gain while Splinterlands could utilize the assets and promote in prop 4 even with a supply increase of 10% the promotional value could be worth more compounded over time and PR wise.
That said overall good job with these proposals will think accordingly and watch the votes :)
I suggest that Splinterlands team should put a function so that a user can know how many packs he/she purchased for eligible the airdrop just like the Chaos Legion pack tab and the Tower defense pack tab.
the problem with point 3 is that everyone is entitled to return and not only the people who have bought in the pre-sale window but no longer landed in the pre-sale!
i could imagine that some who were not in the pre-sale are so smart and just exchange their packs back to be burned and then just buy new packs to increase the value......
i could now buy all the packs that are still available and then have them burned.
because the only condition is that I have not claimed any airdrop and have not opened any package, so all those who buy packages until 9/27 can then have them burned.....
this is a glaring error that this is possible!
this would have fatal consequences if we introduce a system where you can just let packs burn for free. that's why i changed my vote from yes to no
Hello all together,
So I do not want to be petty here now and have voted for all with yes.
Of course, everyone is responsible for it, but the service thought is what counts here. We are not Bethesda or EA, who can not care if players are dissatisfied.
From a marketing point of view it is important that players feel comfortable and safe.
Everyone makes mistakes and even other crypto platforms have no chance to undo it. But even video game manufacturers now issue a return policy and we are closer to gaming than finance, basically we are in between worlds.
The average guy is much more likely to buy if he's not constantly afraid of doing something wrong.
We don't get anything out of being so strict, quite the opposite, and the little bit of inflation doesn't matter at all. The whole market is still a baby, so let it grow first. Land will tie up enough resources.
I'm not worried about that.
Be generous, you would also be happy if it were the other way around.
Oh yes, I have nothing of it, because I did not participate in the pre-sale. It is only my view of things.
Cheers
how do the players feel who were able to get hold of the promocard, who were really happy and proud to have made it, when in retrospect their card is suddenly no longer as rare as they thought because more are simply printed afterwards? are they also affected by your feel-good thoughts?
I find it very funny that all the time when community, feel-good arguments come here, in reality only the players are considered by the change will have an advantage. an even larger part will have a disadvantage, but we simply fade out. but one should at least look at the larger part and not the smaller if one already speaks of community and not all in the view!
As I said, the little bit more doesn't matter. I would not be so petty now. There are few cards anyway, so what the heck.
you call the 15% more cards petty? that 15% is more loss for some than most people's entire accounts are worth.......