Do you want bots reduced or just their ability to unfairly (compared to what a human could do) exploit the systems? If they can't unfairly exploit then what are the different benefits of pushing them away given these new changes?
In my eyes the (future) main problem with bots is that they will be simply too strong. I know not everybody agrees, but I am convinced that they will play significantly stronger than every human player (already now, I wish you much fun beating the 'bubke-bot' for example). So their advantage lays not in the system anymore (I guess the new changes are rather well thought out) but simply in the fact that well concipated bots play better than humans (like they already do in chess, Go, poker, ..., ... where also at the beginning everybody claimed they would never reach such high levels).
I wonder if we really want a game where the first 50 or 100 Champion League ranks will be reserved for bots/AI?
And if not what could be done against it, as it is nearly impossible to prove the use of bots, because even someone using them can still enter the bot-suggested teams manually ...?
Bots could be sophisticated to play really really well and win a ton it is true but the tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of bots out there are mostly developed to play really well with a very small set a cards... a minimal set of cards. In the past they have mostly counted on playing eachother and counted on just doing more battles... but now about 28-30 battles is optimal for rewards so they'll need to focus on higher win percentage so yeah i think they'll try their best to have a better winning percenatage.
I think it is vital that they impliment their desired goal to stop bots froma network to battle against eachother.
While i agree and see your idea. I think you're talking more about ai than bots. Ai is a bot but has capabulity to learn but is heck of a hard thibg to be consistent especially if the games change with new cards and rules like wild and modern. Bots, are simply programmed accounts taht play specific cards regardless of changes. I think most bots used is just general bots and the obe you're saying is a specially made ai which not a lot of people can get their hands with unless you pay or make your own
I think as prizes are rather high nowadays the bots (even those which having the ability to learn and use AI) will become better and better. Already now I wish you much fun while trying to beat the 'bubke-bot'. :)
If new cards/rules come out there always will be an adaption phase of (lets say) a few weeks, but I don't see that as a major problem for bots/AI.
From what i've read ECR is very much part of the equation for rewards... playing 24/7 will make that number much lower and thus they'll earn very little if anything.
That's why this section was highlighted... it's important for anyone (including bots) to be in the league where they can acheive a reasonable win rate.
It is still an issue if bots gets matched up with their own bots AND know they're playing their own other bot and that is an unfair ability to bots. But assuming they fix that then i don't see much advantage to bots playing 24/7 ... however there is an advantage in the fact they can be more consistent with their usage of their ECR and time it better playing every X minutes. Humans tend to play in batches so a bot will manage their 30 plays a day better.
I think a better question is do bots or humans have a higher win rate? (assuming again you take away their ability to know they're playing themselves)
yeah but they never get to, lets say 10% ecr, it is all scripted to stop,send cards to other bot, switch the account while recharging
i think they can have a decent win rate, not checking profiles as splinterlands seems down now, but im at about 2700 rating in silver just by doing daily quests and i constantly get bots, which means they win enough to climb up
I don't understand the concept of sending cards to another account instead of focusing on one account in this system? Doesn't seem to be much of an advantage anymore because season rewards are built up based on full amount of rshares during the season. So whether those cards are earning rshares on account 1 vs account 2 I don't see the difference.
Perhaps it's a balancing of ECR algorithm I guess. Maybe there is a good range to play and switching cards so that account 1 can recharge ECR while another account plays with the cards is something to consider. Though i haven't a clue what that ECR range would be.
A bot doesn't add to community. A bot doesn't spend wrecklessly buying cards because they like the art or want to impress their friends or just really need to add that last beta card to their collection. A bot doesn't do anything that isn't a calculated and duplicatable move to take more value from the system than it adds to it. The second a bot has to pay more in than they receive they are gone. But by that point, players are gone too because a bot farm that's already bought all the spellbooks will farm fractions of what a person would stick around for. Their precision and ability to duplicate their efforts means they will accept a profit margin per account that would make a person give up since the person needs to put their time and effort in where as a bot doesn't.
Bots also aren't satisfying to play against for many people. They also take assets straight from mint to market. And their efforts get duplicated tens of thousands of times. The driving down of the price of cards due to the sheer amount of cards in the game which are only here because of bot farms. The gold rare cards that used to have a $20 floor are now less than $10 because the 2000CP they provide is no longer valuable. You can buy maxed out venari heatsmiths with 2100 CP for $5. Why? Because we needed enough rewards cards to keep the bot farms in business so now we are drowning in CP.
More and more this game doesn't actually reward people buying assets. They reward selling them and that's exactly what the bots do. They mint assets and sell them. Printing more cards, more dec, more chests, does not equal more rewards. Rewards need stable value in order to be rewarding. Example, a few months back I got a gold foil lava launcher in my rewards. It was a $100 card. Sweet! Now it's a $9 card because we printed more and more and more. And are the bot accounts buying those cards to keep the price up? No, they are farming them by the thousands and selling them. Undercutting each other and willing to accept a slimmer margin than the next guy because anything is enough profit when you're set it and forget it bot farm. And each time they drive prices down lower, more players get discouraged that those rewards they got aren't so rewarding. That no matter how much they add to their account or buy, the value just keeps dropping anyway. But again, bot owners don't care. This is only about the profit. And a $2 gold foil Epic card is still $2 in their pocket. They don't use those cards anyway. They use basic level 1 CL cards.
And making bots rent those level 1 CL cards doesn't add much to the economy and they wouldn't do it if it did because again, bots are here to take more than they put in, full stop. How abundant are CL common and rare cards? Most of them rent for .1 dec which is now $0.0001 per day. If they have to rent 50 cards to not have to use starter cards (probably only need about 15) its half a cent per day to now get back soooooo much more than they got before for not paying in that half a cent. How is that helping the economy? THey will take those cards and that dec straight to the market and undercut the already low prices and there aren't enough human buyers to keep up with them so market caps will just keep pushing lower.
Finally, the more people who have bots playing in their place, the less people actually care about the assets they're winning beyond the sell price. And the less people care, the lower that sell price goes until they aren't worth anything.
Doesn't seem to be much of an advantage anymore with these upcoming changes because season rewards are built up based on full amount of rshares during the season. So whether those cards are earning rshares on account 1 vs account 2 I don't see the difference. Unless of course you overplay and your ECR goes way way down... but i assume bots will just configure so they don't play as much and keep their ecr at an optimal rate. Therefore i don't really see the reason for transfering cards assuming you manage your ECR efficiently.
they already own cards, and farm the pool dec 24/7, don't you see every week get worse and worse? now in silver2 with 7 gold cards and 100% ecr i get barely 1.5DEC, past season was 2DEC and before again was 2.5DEC...it is pointless to play for a human now after first day of season reset
The DEC reward pool is based on the market price for DEC. The number of bots doesn't make much of a difference there. As the price of DEC falls back to its peg of $.001 they will print 1,000,000 DEC per day.
and most Bot accounts transfer their cards to a market account that sells all their rewards. The vast majority of Bot accounts do not own starter cards yet and will now have to buy or rent them which raises the value of the assets by increasing demand. You really shouldn't be playing to earn DEC, you should aim to earn cards that you can sell for dec if DEC is your goal, you'll do much better.
Its true Is based on DEC value but After season reset you have 1 day of decent earnings and then After already its cut half and in 3 days its all gone for good, this Is bot emptying the DEC pool
Do you want bots reduced or just their ability to unfairly (compared to what a human could do) exploit the systems? If they can't unfairly exploit then what are the different benefits of pushing them away given these new changes?
In my eyes the (future) main problem with bots is that they will be simply too strong. I know not everybody agrees, but I am convinced that they will play significantly stronger than every human player (already now, I wish you much fun beating the 'bubke-bot' for example). So their advantage lays not in the system anymore (I guess the new changes are rather well thought out) but simply in the fact that well concipated bots play better than humans (like they already do in chess, Go, poker, ..., ... where also at the beginning everybody claimed they would never reach such high levels).
I wonder if we really want a game where the first 50 or 100 Champion League ranks will be reserved for bots/AI?
And if not what could be done against it, as it is nearly impossible to prove the use of bots, because even someone using them can still enter the bot-suggested teams manually ...?
Bots could be sophisticated to play really really well and win a ton it is true but the tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of bots out there are mostly developed to play really well with a very small set a cards... a minimal set of cards. In the past they have mostly counted on playing eachother and counted on just doing more battles... but now about 28-30 battles is optimal for rewards so they'll need to focus on higher win percentage so yeah i think they'll try their best to have a better winning percenatage.
I think it is vital that they impliment their desired goal to stop bots froma network to battle against eachother.
Sure, I agree!
We are writing about two different things here.
I just see the appearance of very strong bots in Champion League as the next tricky to solve problem to loom on the horizon.
While i agree and see your idea. I think you're talking more about ai than bots. Ai is a bot but has capabulity to learn but is heck of a hard thibg to be consistent especially if the games change with new cards and rules like wild and modern. Bots, are simply programmed accounts taht play specific cards regardless of changes. I think most bots used is just general bots and the obe you're saying is a specially made ai which not a lot of people can get their hands with unless you pay or make your own
I think as prizes are rather high nowadays the bots (even those which having the ability to learn and use AI) will become better and better. Already now I wish you much fun while trying to beat the 'bubke-bot'. :)
If new cards/rules come out there always will be an adaption phase of (lets say) a few weeks, but I don't see that as a major problem for bots/AI.
who you think will get more rewards chests, a bot playing 24/7 farming wins (beside decs) or a human with a normal life?
From what i've read ECR is very much part of the equation for rewards... playing 24/7 will make that number much lower and thus they'll earn very little if anything.
That's why this section was highlighted... it's important for anyone (including bots) to be in the league where they can acheive a reasonable win rate.
It is still an issue if bots gets matched up with their own bots AND know they're playing their own other bot and that is an unfair ability to bots. But assuming they fix that then i don't see much advantage to bots playing 24/7 ... however there is an advantage in the fact they can be more consistent with their usage of their ECR and time it better playing every X minutes. Humans tend to play in batches so a bot will manage their 30 plays a day better.
I think a better question is do bots or humans have a higher win rate? (assuming again you take away their ability to know they're playing themselves)
yeah but they never get to, lets say 10% ecr, it is all scripted to stop,send cards to other bot, switch the account while recharging
i think they can have a decent win rate, not checking profiles as splinterlands seems down now, but im at about 2700 rating in silver just by doing daily quests and i constantly get bots, which means they win enough to climb up
I don't understand the concept of sending cards to another account instead of focusing on one account in this system? Doesn't seem to be much of an advantage anymore because season rewards are built up based on full amount of rshares during the season. So whether those cards are earning rshares on account 1 vs account 2 I don't see the difference.
Perhaps it's a balancing of ECR algorithm I guess. Maybe there is a good range to play and switching cards so that account 1 can recharge ECR while another account plays with the cards is something to consider. Though i haven't a clue what that ECR range would be.
A bot doesn't add to community. A bot doesn't spend wrecklessly buying cards because they like the art or want to impress their friends or just really need to add that last beta card to their collection. A bot doesn't do anything that isn't a calculated and duplicatable move to take more value from the system than it adds to it. The second a bot has to pay more in than they receive they are gone. But by that point, players are gone too because a bot farm that's already bought all the spellbooks will farm fractions of what a person would stick around for. Their precision and ability to duplicate their efforts means they will accept a profit margin per account that would make a person give up since the person needs to put their time and effort in where as a bot doesn't.
Bots also aren't satisfying to play against for many people. They also take assets straight from mint to market. And their efforts get duplicated tens of thousands of times. The driving down of the price of cards due to the sheer amount of cards in the game which are only here because of bot farms. The gold rare cards that used to have a $20 floor are now less than $10 because the 2000CP they provide is no longer valuable. You can buy maxed out venari heatsmiths with 2100 CP for $5. Why? Because we needed enough rewards cards to keep the bot farms in business so now we are drowning in CP.
More and more this game doesn't actually reward people buying assets. They reward selling them and that's exactly what the bots do. They mint assets and sell them. Printing more cards, more dec, more chests, does not equal more rewards. Rewards need stable value in order to be rewarding. Example, a few months back I got a gold foil lava launcher in my rewards. It was a $100 card. Sweet! Now it's a $9 card because we printed more and more and more. And are the bot accounts buying those cards to keep the price up? No, they are farming them by the thousands and selling them. Undercutting each other and willing to accept a slimmer margin than the next guy because anything is enough profit when you're set it and forget it bot farm. And each time they drive prices down lower, more players get discouraged that those rewards they got aren't so rewarding. That no matter how much they add to their account or buy, the value just keeps dropping anyway. But again, bot owners don't care. This is only about the profit. And a $2 gold foil Epic card is still $2 in their pocket. They don't use those cards anyway. They use basic level 1 CL cards.
And making bots rent those level 1 CL cards doesn't add much to the economy and they wouldn't do it if it did because again, bots are here to take more than they put in, full stop. How abundant are CL common and rare cards? Most of them rent for .1 dec which is now $0.0001 per day. If they have to rent 50 cards to not have to use starter cards (probably only need about 15) its half a cent per day to now get back soooooo much more than they got before for not paying in that half a cent. How is that helping the economy? THey will take those cards and that dec straight to the market and undercut the already low prices and there aren't enough human buyers to keep up with them so market caps will just keep pushing lower.
Finally, the more people who have bots playing in their place, the less people actually care about the assets they're winning beyond the sell price. And the less people care, the lower that sell price goes until they aren't worth anything.
Bots aren't the same as people.
Finally could take stata
This Is stl-arm, One of Major botter, as you can see 45% win rate, not bad
Transfer cards Is to have Always a full set of CL Gold cards and earn the max you can in DEC with the bonuses
Doesn't seem to be much of an advantage anymore with these upcoming changes because season rewards are built up based on full amount of rshares during the season. So whether those cards are earning rshares on account 1 vs account 2 I don't see the difference. Unless of course you overplay and your ECR goes way way down... but i assume bots will just configure so they don't play as much and keep their ecr at an optimal rate. Therefore i don't really see the reason for transfering cards assuming you manage your ECR efficiently.
The idea isn't to stop bots. It's to make them contribute to the economy by owning or renting cards.
they already own cards, and farm the pool dec 24/7, don't you see every week get worse and worse? now in silver2 with 7 gold cards and 100% ecr i get barely 1.5DEC, past season was 2DEC and before again was 2.5DEC...it is pointless to play for a human now after first day of season reset
The DEC reward pool is based on the market price for DEC. The number of bots doesn't make much of a difference there. As the price of DEC falls back to its peg of $.001 they will print 1,000,000 DEC per day.
and most Bot accounts transfer their cards to a market account that sells all their rewards. The vast majority of Bot accounts do not own starter cards yet and will now have to buy or rent them which raises the value of the assets by increasing demand. You really shouldn't be playing to earn DEC, you should aim to earn cards that you can sell for dec if DEC is your goal, you'll do much better.
Its true Is based on DEC value but After season reset you have 1 day of decent earnings and then After already its cut half and in 3 days its all gone for good, this Is bot emptying the DEC pool
Bots have already tons of Gold cl cards, wont change anything