If Joker Became A Marvel Character, What Marvel Superhero Would He Obsess Over? Why?

Hey, Dude! See Ya Later!

I've had enough of "reality" for a while. If 2020 and 2021 so far are any indication of the way it's going to be from now on, I'm done. I want no part of it.

I doubt I'm alone. More and more of us are just getting to the point of being done. Of course, instead of doing anything constructive when the world isn't making much sense (what can we truly do but do what we can and keep on keeping on?), people tune out and turn to nonsense instead.

I mean, isn't that why social media thrives?

So, I'm going to check out for a while, and touch upon the trivial for the rest of this post.

You're more than welcome to join me.

How Today's Post About Nothing Was Born

Periodically, I receive emails from Quora promoting some question and answer. They usually have something to do with Marvel Comics or superhero comics in general, because I may have, once or twice, perused such topics on the Quora site.

A couple of days ago, I got one in the old inbox. I've included the question and entire response below. You'll note that it's from March 8, 2019. Apparently, Quora is at a point where they need to recycle stuff. Somehow, they knew I'd read it anyway.

I wish I hadn't. It's stuck in my brain, and now I have to work my way out of it.

But like I said, since my last couple of posts have been about my current true life predicaments, it's time to do something trivial. Something that just doesn't matter.

Like this.

Here's The Quora Question As It Was Originally Written

If the Joker was transported irreversibly to Marvel, what superhero would he most likely become obsessed with? Why?

You'll notice I rewrote the question in the title to the post. That was on purpose.

Why? I have a problem with the way the question is worded. It makes it sound like some cosmic power beamed Joker from the DC Comics Universe to the Marvel Comics Universe. And while that's undoubtedly one way it would happen in the story, were such to be written and drawn, it all sounds like it's happening on its own, as if it were real.

Newsflash. It ain't real. Joker doesn't exist. The DC Universe doesn't exist. Neither does the Marvel Universe, much to my dismay.

I know, I was going to escape reality in this post, but here I am, bringing it back up!

There are large media corporations involved. Publishers, managing editors, regular editors, writers, artists, etc. All of them trying to sell as many comic book copies as they can. Sure, it has to do with compelling storytelling, but just like any other industry, they're looking at the bottom line.

So nothing or no one is being "irreversibly transported" anywhere. The only way that happens, especially for the Joker, is if DC folds into Marvel somehow. I know Marvel had some financial issues before the MCU got started. Don't know if DC is at a breaking point. Hopefully, not. I think the two companies, and the character universes they've created, should stay irrevocably separate.

However, that doesn't mean there can't be some crossovers from time to time. Or maybe some What If or Alternative Universe type stuff. That's happened quite a bit over the last couple of decades. I attribute it mostly to people—writers, fans, probably, but more likely writers—getting bored or feeling boxed in working with the same characters and their traits. They feel the need to "shake things up a bit" because "it's all been done."

Well, I think that's the real test of a great storyteller. Being true to the character and their history, but somehow make it seem new, or if you prefer, contemporary, to reflect societal changes and sensibilities.

Some things should never happen, though. Superman, in any universe, should be Superman. Good. Hopeful. Inspiring. A step above. Always making the hard choices, taking the hard high road because he represents more than what mere mortals can. If he falls short of that on purpose, if he finally reaches a true breaking point, he's no longer Superman. He's something else. He's someone else. Like Ultraman, with a different name, different look, etc.

He doesn't become anymore interesting because someone thinks it's cool to see him destroying everyone and everything that gets in his way. He becomes like every other supervillain he's ever sworn to stop.

Only worse.

But I digress. Triviality, after all, breeds more triviality.

Back On Topic. Maybe.

Okay, so I have a problem with the question. However, my main sticking points are with the answer.

Not only does the responder accept the premise as is (until the last paragraph, essentially burying the lead, where it's now sort of tongue in cheek) he has to apply "reality" to "fantasy."

Meaning, Joker wouldn't last very long in the Marvel Universe because, most likely, someone like, oh, say, The Punisher, Cable, Wolverine or, of all people, Moon Knight, would quickly dispose of him, no problem and no regrets.

As if there aren't enough DC equivalents to do that to now poor, inept Joker, too.

Apparently, Joker is the joke. There's no way in the "real world" of Marvel that he would stand a chance because he's overrated. I guess. I'm reading between the lines to some degree because I don't understand why the laws of one fictional universe is any different than any other fictional universe, especially when, a) they're both fictional, b) they've been doing their level best to copy one another for around 80 years, and c) they've both had their share of the inexplicable, if we're still trying to apply "reality."

People Seem To Have Trouble Suspending Reality, Even For Fiction

That couldn't possibly happen!

Said the nerd/geek, whose entire life revolves around some version of superhero comics, fantasy card games, pseudoscience and online trolling about said topics.

Earth to nerd/geeks. It's fiction! It's made up! It's not supposed to be "real." There aren't superheroes flying around chasing down supervillains in real life because, at least to date, nature and nature's laws don't permit it.

So, yes, it all resides in a fictional universe where you have to except that such things can and do happen, with reckless abandon. Which means, pretty much anything can and will happen. Because it's made up. Because someone, somewhere, thought it was a cool idea.

Like bringing back Jean Grey after she was Dark Phoenix. Or bringing back nearly every character that ever "died" through one kind of gimmick or another, like, Oh, that's not mainstream Superman. That's World No. 1234567891011's Superman.

Or, Heh, jk/jk. He's really not dead or a Hydra operative since birth.

The real truth is, they realize they've killed off the Golden Goose, and once they have, it's amazing how many more stories they can come up with that may have actually meant something if the character had never been offed in the first place.

The Only Reality That Matters In Fiction Is It's Own

A good story does stay within the confines of its own laws. If it's breaking its own laws, that's generally more a sign of poor writing or a story that isn't ready to be told because it hasn't been thought through enough or it just doesn't go anywhere.

Not all stories that could be told need to be told, or are equivalent. Some are truly bad, and both DC and Marvel have introduced their share of nonsense over the decades.

And for seemingly forever now, it's been the exploration to explosion of anti-heroes, from ones who actually were to begin with getting more greenlights, to turning former heroes with creeds and conscience into cold blooded killers, because, well, they're offing bad guys and they all deserve to die, anyway.

Now, it's to the point where it's the villains' turn to reign. We're getting movies like Venom and Suicide Squad and Joker because...what? Evil is inherently more interesting and fun than Good?

Heroes don't have to be infallible. They don't have to always do the right thing, or even know what the right thing is all the time. But at some point, they must turn the corner, make progress, move forward, and find their way.

And it's also okay for villains to change, reconcile, seek redemption. There is nothing wrong with having complex characters that induce sympathy. Comics can certainly be visual morality plays. But wanton killing, for the sake of it, or becoming judge, jury and executioner, without restraint, just because one can, does not deserve adoration or envy, nor should it. Evil should never be celebrated. It must be checked, eventually defeated and sent back to the hellish depths from whence it crept, knowing that it won't ever be completely vanquished.

No, I Haven't Answered The Question

That's what happens when you've got too much to say and didn't know it ahead of time. Oh, well.

I'll still take a stab at it.

First off, no way Joker ends up in the Marvel Universe permanently. He's too entrenched now, to integral a part of DC and specifically Batman stories now. But if it happens temporarily, in a short series or one off, there's plenty of havoc he could wreak before ultimately being put in his place or sent packing back to the other universe.

Joker has become a symbol of chaos, of anarchy, of nihilism at its most destructive, even to the point of self-annihilation. He's more than content to die if it means Batman goes with him. In fact, his greatest joy would be for both of them to end together.

Heroes, it's been said, are only as good as their villains. Batman and Joker personify this. They complete one another, because they are two sides of the same coin. Joker is Batman's constant reminder of what he could become were he to cross the lines he's sworn never to cross, and Batman is that immovable object to Joker's irresistible force. Neither, at this point in the story, can truly exist without the other, though I think Batman might fare a little better were Joker to completely disappear.

Which is why, be it the lack of time, or be it simply the fact that no one in the Marvel Universe rivals Batman in intellect, stratagem, sleuthing, discipline, style, confidence, or bridled fury—always on the edge of the precipice, but never completely going over—that Joker would more likely than not, simply get bored. It wouldn't be fun enough for him.

Batman is as much a psychological experiment for Joker as he is a foe that must be matched, outwitted or defeated. Just how far can Joker go before Batman snaps, truly unleashes? Therein lies the true tension, and why Joker could never really obsess over anyone else, even if he wanted to.

It just wouldn't be the same.

The Quora Question And Answer In Full, In Case You're Still Interested

Okay. That was nice being frivolous for an entire post. A nice change of pace for me from what I've done the last few times. Thanks for indulging me.

Maybe I'll even hide out here for a while, being trivial some more.

Maybe, but probably not. Reality doesn't like being ignored, and certainly not for very long.

_{Image sources—Joker image by Glen Anthony Albrethsen. Screenshot from Quora email}