For a long time now I have been writing about how I don't think that anyone ever gets busted for overstaying their visas in Vietnam. It has always appeared as though if one doesn't want to leave when their visa expires and is prepared to pay the overstay fine that maxes out at $800, they could do so without much trouble.
This has recently taken a turn that I didn't foresee but doesn't yet apply to a great number of people. I still know tons of people that are simply here without visas and have faced no issues other than the fact that they cannot leave.
The latest round of "busts" have been happening to people that actually did have visas but they were acquired under false pretenses.
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A couple of people that I know and a few other people that I do not know but know people who know them, have been approached by Immigration officials about their "investment visas." This visa is a scam of sorts that people have been using for years in Vietnam and if you actually are investing in something it is totally legitimate. The problem is that certain agencies used this as an opportunity to make money off of people and they way it worked was like this
- The agency would set up a bank account that is meant to be yours or the company's and then deposit the requisite amount of money that is required to apply for an investment visa. This money is meant to be used to develop a company or business of some sort and if legitimate, it comes along with a long-term visa
- The agency holds your passport as collateral in order to make sure that you aren't just going to run off with the money but I have also heard that they have connections in the banks so that if your idea was to steal the money that they would be able to take the money back anyway.
- Once the papers are approved by the government and you have the necessary documents that "prove" that you invested in an existing Vietnamese company you get a long-term visa
- Then the agency takes the supposed investment money back out of the account but you still have your paperwork "proving" that you did invest in said company
The major problem with this wasn't that it is circumventing the system so much as it is that too many people were doing it. The government here isn't terribly good at auditing and for the most part they leave small businesses alone and just take your word on your tax documents. Only recently did a big purge begin once it was discovered that there was a nationwide (or so it appears) network of visa agencies that were intentionally defrauding the government. There is no doubt in my mind that the Immigration officials themselves were in on this and cashing in on it as well but leadership changes and with new leadership, new officials take over the positions and perhaps they were trying to make a name for themselves by investigating the very large amount of "investors" that just happened to be investing the minimal amount of money that is required in order to obtain this visa.
The people holding these visas are being punished by being deported. The real trouble is for the agents themselves, some of which have gone into hiding and have completely disappeared from the scene.
I think that it is probably not a great idea to attempt to get a scammy visa from an agent that you know you are not qualified for in an effort to falsify your legitimacy in a particular country is concerned. I still stand by my original opinion that it is probably a better idea to just overstay your visa and then pay the fine afterwards. It remains to be seen if by doing this you end up being banned from re-entering the country, but I do know a lot of people that have overstayed, paid a bribe to someone higher up, and then were immediately allowed back into the country.
I really feel like agents in this country are actually quite dangerous, especially if they claim to have some sort of shortcut that circumvents the law. If you don't actually have the.... I think it is $11,000 to invest into something, then the investment visa is not the right one to use. If you DO have that sort of cash, a company doesn't necessarily have to spend you money, it just needs to be provable on a balance sheet that the money actually exists and it did in fact come from YOU.
Stay away from visa agents is the lesson here. In the 5 years that I have lived here I have seen a lot of them come and go and I think that this adds some credence to my suspicion that they were all breaking the law in the first place. Not obeying a rule and claiming ignorance, such as simply overstaying a visa, is regarded as something that can just be ignored if you pay the fine. Intentionally lying to the government and falsifying documents is another matter entirely.
I see how that purge happened. It basically happened everywhere around the world after the bloody lockdown where businesses were all clean and started over. Since every business is zerorized, any sort of transaction is now above the radar 😂 not hard to detect these investors visa holders that have absolutely no investment or return going on with their "company"
I hadn't thought about the lockdowns being part of it but you have a good point there as to why the timing seems to line up with that.
I think you are probably better off simply not having a visa and then apologizing and paying money for it later than you are by setting up a bogus company and trying to dupe the government. Both are bad ideas, but the fake companies put you on a list that you probably don't want to be on.
I know several people on these visas and yes, the government will get to them eventually. One of the people I know that recently got busted was told by a translator that they have actually known about him for a long time, but they have such a huge backlog of suspected fraud that it takes a lot of time to get around to the people.
A notice was actually recently passed around my condo advising people on these sorts of visas to turn themselves in and by doing so the consequences will be less severe than if they have to "come and find you."
This was once offered to me but I pursued other routes of obtaining visas. If Thailand taught me one thing before moving to Vietnam, it was that you don't mess with Immigration since they have absolute power once they get a hold of you.
This wouldn't surprise me at all since I have heard that Immigration is kind of overwhelmed at all times here and are understaffed. I don't know if this is true or not but it does seem likely.
I've received the same notification from my landlord. I'm not abusing any of the rules (yet) but I do know many others that are weighing their options as to whether or not to turn themselves in or not.
Vietnam is a corrupted third world country as many others.
Probably, but for the most part the system appears to be more civilized than other developing countries I have visited or know a bit about.
⋆ ᴛʜᴇ ᴘʟᴀᴄᴇ ғᴏʀ sᴏᴜᴛʜᴇᴀsᴛ ᴀsɪᴀɴ ᴄᴏɴᴛᴇɴᴛ ᴏɴ ʜɪᴠᴇ
⋆ sᴜʙsᴄʀɪʙᴇ ᴛᴏ ᴛʜᴇ ᴀsᴇᴀɴ ʜɪᴠᴇ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴜɴɪᴛʏ
⋆ ғᴏʟʟᴏᴡ ᴛʜᴇ ᴀsᴇᴀɴ ʜɪᴠᴇ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴜɴɪᴛʏ ᴠᴏᴛɪɴɢ ᴛʀᴀɪʟ
⋆ ᴅᴇʟᴇɢᴀᴛɪᴏɴ ʟɪɴᴋs 25 ʜᴘ⇾50 ʜᴘ⇾100 ʜᴘ⇾500 ʜᴘ⇾1,000 ʜᴘ
Sounds like a shady scheme and no doubt the new officers will set up an ew scheme that will include themselves as being a beneficiary. This always happens as only corrupt ones would find this out. I hope it all works out for you and can either get a visa or have no hassles.
There will always be a loophole somewhere but from what I hear from people that have been here a long time, these schemes always get busted eventually. I suppose there is some benefit to it but I think people should go into them realizing that eventually, and it might take a while, they will get busted.
Geez, this is the very reason I've been avoiding the work permit in Cambodia for so many years. A work permit is "required" to renew a one-year visa the second time around, and you are asked to pay fines dating back to your first entry in Cambodia, in my case 2010. Work permits weren't even available at that time because I went to the Ministry of Labor at that time to make sure I was cleared to work at a school.
These work permits are a new hustle that travel agents said the government requires them to enforce, but everyone is now working a fake job similar to what you've described in this post. I went to the Immigration Department recently and was told I will never need a work permit if I'm not working so long as I renew my visas in person directly with them. I fear one day a new hustle will be making foreigners pay fines for all the years they maintained fake jobs on a work permit they were forced to get, corruption at its finest.
I've heard a lot of "hustle" stories from people that used to live in Cambodia and rather crazy ones like you could buy a 1-year visa for $300, no questions asked. I have always doubted the authenticity of these claims now that I see all the problems that you are having.
Maybe it was just before your time because a few of the people I know that say things like this don't really bullshit about a lot of stuff.
One thing is for certain in most Immigration centers around the world though and that is that they are always looking for a way to pad their own salaries via their position. I certainly hope they don't backlog all the people working fake jobs since the departments themselves are almost certainly very aware of their illegitimacy.
Back in 2010 it was full-on wild west pay your $300 and do whatever you want. It's slowly become more bureaucratic with time, and now if you're a foreigner in any town with a trickle of tourists, you have to work permits, tourist license, business license, and so many more random things that are a headache to pursue.
Luckily I think I have found some channels to keep visa going without diving into the bureaucracy of fake jobs and whatnot. When I return from the USA and get my one-month visa at the airport, Immigration already said I can do a one-year visa for $70 in person without a work permit, so fingers crossed for the cheapest visa ever in coming months.
Well I certainly hope this ends up being the case. it almost sounds too good to be true though.