You would have done very well with this aspect of identity, however, I think your post and everything you covered pairs nicely with the aspect of identity I didn't dive into very much.
Initially, I was going to go into the vedic/holistic aspects of the study of identity but alas, the post morphed before my eyes and took on its own path.
There is a general consensus among biologists that the body of an animal is being held up by muscles, bones, tendons, etc. However, there is an ever-growing body of evidence that would prove otherwise, or at least that this is only a small part of the whole.
Scientists, under modern empiricism, will never be able to prove, in any way, that the human is not only the body. And that is because they start from a materialistic conception, and it is impossible that by studying the matter they find evidence of something immaterial. Unless they accept that to say that the only thing that has existence is matter, it is a totally arbitrary choice and that it does not really respond to any sustained logic.
The fact that the human is not only the body and that there are intangible things we have known for thousands of years. And to think that the only thing that exists is the physical world leads to countless aporias and incongruities of which we have knowledge since Parmenides and Plato. However, scientism has never been responsible for giving an answer to such things, they have made tabula rasa and ignored everything that does not fit in their vision, without ever giving an answer, simply ignored, not seeing reality as it is, and beginning to adapt reality to how they want it to be.
This will not give them any problem in purely physical issues, scientists will continue making advances in the field of physics and applied sciences as they have been doing, but the moment they seek answers beyond that, their knowledge will be totally useless.
If the human being were only his physique, we should say that the child me has absolutely nothing to do with the me of the now, and so with all people, because there is physically nothing that connects them.
On the other hand, the transhumanists start from a misinterpretation of evolutionary theory. They believe that human evolution has been a constant and linear progression, as if the world were meant to turn the human into an improved and superior version of itself. Evolutionary theory never says such a thing, in fact, the changes we see between us and the monkeys, which supposedly descend from a common ancestor, did not occur to become superior to us and inferior to them, but to adapt each one to its environment.
In such a way that, in spite of the fact that we place robotic pieces, there would be no progress at all, since the human physical qualities correspond to the environment. If we must change ourselves to adapt to the artificial environment we create, it is to be feared that the environment we are creating, far from being beneficial, is harmful to us, because it does not correspond to ourselves.
On the other hand, a few days ago, in one of your posts, I remember you mentioned Gramsci. Gramsci has an important concept that is "common sense", which is that axiomatic knowledge that people have, but that is not based on logic, reason, or anything, but simply imposed by cultural hegemony.
The fact that "we are continually progressing thanks to technological advances" is not a reality, it is an illusion, it is apparent to common sense, but it is not based on facts. Society does not advance at all to have more material things, the rulers traced the starting line and the goal, and told us that we are in a race. The advance in technology has been at the expense of many other things, however, the focus has been only on a handful, very small handful of things, to believe that we are progressing.
So far I see that I extended so much and I'm sorry, but it's a very good post and it has made me think. Regards!
I'm not ignoring you - I'm actually quite excited about your comment and jumping into discussion with you. I never mind thoughtful responses - just so you know.
Right now, my time is limited though so I might be a little delayed in writing you back...but I will! :)
It's like taking a class when I read your posts hehehehe I always walk away with some new insight! :)
I really liked that quote by Szent-Györgyi - love that he proves the conscious awareness in our bodies as a force! hehehehe never thought about it that way!
As far as how far we will take technological advancements to the human.....
oh, that's an easy answer. Humans don't usually stop conquering a field until they destroy all there is. lol. (too pessimistic???? LOL)
but I believe as long as the human is alive - the human is human. I believe in a soul :) I know it is immeasurable - but I believe that's what makes it beautiful and mysterious and never fully-known.
so then that begs the question... if the human is being kept alive - THEN is the human still human? hehehehee
so then that begs the question... if the human is being kept alive - THEN is the human still human? hehehehee
It depends if you consider a human being a human being because of 'consciousness' or the soul. If you do not believe this to be part of the consideration then I would say, 'no' that is a biological robot or an artificial intelligence.
It really does press the boundaries though, huh? I've got a few more questions along these lines entering my brain right now. Interesting.
Howdy this fine Wednesday youhavewings! Wow another brilliant post! Very thought-provoking too. I go with the argument that without consciousness it isn't human and without spirit there would be no consciousness. That's my simple redneck view of it but much of this article is too celebral for me! lol.
Howdy again youhavewings! I know, I doubt if it's been so long but steemit time is very different because of the way things move along everyday and it's hard to keep up so time feels like it's sped up essentially and a few days feels like weeks! lol. I did see your post a few days ago or last week that won the curie but I didn't comment on it because I wasn't sure what to say but the post was amazing I remember that so I wasn't surprised by the curie. You should time your long posts like that since curie can award your work. Maybe you are already I don't know. Are you spending more time on steemit these days?
that's him.
I've read Burning Chrome, Virtual Light, Idoru, Pattern Recognition, and Neuromancer. He's a heavy read... this isn't some easy summer beach fare. It makes you think about the nature of thought, intelligence, and what it is to be human v. artificial intelligence.
Burning Chrome is a collection of his short stories. Depends on your lifestyle... if this is easier to get into with real life time limits... or:
Most people would say, Neuromancer is the place to start.
While I am not most people, I'll go out on a limb and agree with them.
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Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor's perspective helped me to understand a thing or two on the human brain. Just as you have put even more into perspective for me, thank you @youhavewings!
I love that video, too! It opens up so many perspectives - I more align with Dr. Jill's impression of who we are. I don't think we could have survived as long as we have without this higher operating system ;)
Thanks, charisma777 I always enjoy your thoughts and comments
What a gift Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor has given us in allowing us a glimpse from inside her mind as an observer of two separate realities we draw upon for our identity. One being the sum of our parts and limited sense of self derived from our environment and the other from something much greater, numinous, that simultaneously occupies this space and every living thing.
Some time ago I have read about her and was so fascinated. Completely forgot about her most valuable insights. I really have to catch up on this.
Thank you so much for reminding me of that. This is such a wonderful article, thank you so much <3
Sending a basket full of love your way <3 @youhavewings
@ravijojla, this is for sure a read you would enjoy a lot!
I'm so happy that you enjoyed this. I actually thought of you when I posted the Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor part of the post. I started to tag you in it actually. I think that if you're viewing her video from an experiencer's view, her words become especially meaningful ;) As well as the emotion she pairs with her story. Yes, very powerful stuff.
Hey, @youhavewings I was brought here by @anutu to read this extraordinary post and he had right to recommend it to me.
It is a pleasure to dive below the lines and surf on the top of your thoughts.
Loved the time spent here!
Hi Ravi! I'm glad you liked it - I think we probably have similar views on the organic approach to life. I see the contents in this post much the same way.
I should of just put in my post
What you have wings said.
Haha brilliant I agree 100%
You would have done very well with this aspect of identity, however, I think your post and everything you covered pairs nicely with the aspect of identity I didn't dive into very much.
Initially, I was going to go into the vedic/holistic aspects of the study of identity but alas, the post morphed before my eyes and took on its own path.
Scientists, under modern empiricism, will never be able to prove, in any way, that the human is not only the body. And that is because they start from a materialistic conception, and it is impossible that by studying the matter they find evidence of something immaterial. Unless they accept that to say that the only thing that has existence is matter, it is a totally arbitrary choice and that it does not really respond to any sustained logic.
The fact that the human is not only the body and that there are intangible things we have known for thousands of years. And to think that the only thing that exists is the physical world leads to countless aporias and incongruities of which we have knowledge since Parmenides and Plato. However, scientism has never been responsible for giving an answer to such things, they have made tabula rasa and ignored everything that does not fit in their vision, without ever giving an answer, simply ignored, not seeing reality as it is, and beginning to adapt reality to how they want it to be.
This will not give them any problem in purely physical issues, scientists will continue making advances in the field of physics and applied sciences as they have been doing, but the moment they seek answers beyond that, their knowledge will be totally useless.
If the human being were only his physique, we should say that the child me has absolutely nothing to do with the me of the now, and so with all people, because there is physically nothing that connects them.
On the other hand, the transhumanists start from a misinterpretation of evolutionary theory. They believe that human evolution has been a constant and linear progression, as if the world were meant to turn the human into an improved and superior version of itself. Evolutionary theory never says such a thing, in fact, the changes we see between us and the monkeys, which supposedly descend from a common ancestor, did not occur to become superior to us and inferior to them, but to adapt each one to its environment.
In such a way that, in spite of the fact that we place robotic pieces, there would be no progress at all, since the human physical qualities correspond to the environment. If we must change ourselves to adapt to the artificial environment we create, it is to be feared that the environment we are creating, far from being beneficial, is harmful to us, because it does not correspond to ourselves.
On the other hand, a few days ago, in one of your posts, I remember you mentioned Gramsci. Gramsci has an important concept that is "common sense", which is that axiomatic knowledge that people have, but that is not based on logic, reason, or anything, but simply imposed by cultural hegemony.
The fact that "we are continually progressing thanks to technological advances" is not a reality, it is an illusion, it is apparent to common sense, but it is not based on facts. Society does not advance at all to have more material things, the rulers traced the starting line and the goal, and told us that we are in a race. The advance in technology has been at the expense of many other things, however, the focus has been only on a handful, very small handful of things, to believe that we are progressing.
So far I see that I extended so much and I'm sorry, but it's a very good post and it has made me think. Regards!
Hiya @vieira;
I'm not ignoring you - I'm actually quite excited about your comment and jumping into discussion with you. I never mind thoughtful responses - just so you know.
Right now, my time is limited though so I might be a little delayed in writing you back...but I will! :)
Take the necessary time, really it's just a comment.
It's like taking a class when I read your posts hehehehe I always walk away with some new insight! :)
I really liked that quote by Szent-Györgyi - love that he proves the conscious awareness in our bodies as a force! hehehehe never thought about it that way!
As far as how far we will take technological advancements to the human.....
oh, that's an easy answer. Humans don't usually stop conquering a field until they destroy all there is. lol. (too pessimistic???? LOL)
but I believe as long as the human is alive - the human is human. I believe in a soul :) I know it is immeasurable - but I believe that's what makes it beautiful and mysterious and never fully-known.
so then that begs the question... if the human is being kept alive - THEN is the human still human? hehehehee
well.... rabbit hole time ;)
I do like rabbit holes :)
It depends if you consider a human being a human being because of 'consciousness' or the soul. If you do not believe this to be part of the consideration then I would say, 'no' that is a biological robot or an artificial intelligence.
It really does press the boundaries though, huh? I've got a few more questions along these lines entering my brain right now. Interesting.
and yet, it's still a human intelligence
Artificial to me, would be one not organically derived, but designed.
hehehehehe rabbit hole activated! :)
Howdy this fine Wednesday youhavewings! Wow another brilliant post! Very thought-provoking too. I go with the argument that without consciousness it isn't human and without spirit there would be no consciousness. That's my simple redneck view of it but much of this article is too celebral for me! lol.
I completely agree with your thoughts, @janton :)
Hope you're doing well these days! Seems like forever since we've connected on steemit.
Howdy again youhavewings! I know, I doubt if it's been so long but steemit time is very different because of the way things move along everyday and it's hard to keep up so time feels like it's sped up essentially and a few days feels like weeks! lol. I did see your post a few days ago or last week that won the curie but I didn't comment on it because I wasn't sure what to say but the post was amazing I remember that so I wasn't surprised by the curie. You should time your long posts like that since curie can award your work. Maybe you are already I don't know. Are you spending more time on steemit these days?
have you read much of William Gibson?
No, but I just looked him up and he does seem to have some interesting and similar topics for his books. Thanks for bringing his name up!
This is him, right?
http://www.williamgibsonbooks.com/books/books.asp
that's him.
I've read Burning Chrome, Virtual Light, Idoru, Pattern Recognition, and Neuromancer. He's a heavy read... this isn't some easy summer beach fare. It makes you think about the nature of thought, intelligence, and what it is to be human v. artificial intelligence.
Not to mention a commentary on today's Internet and Cyber world... (he wrote some of this 30 yrs ago!!!)
Sounds like either a guy 'in the know' or had some great intuition and foresight.
well sure... thank you.
but enough about me...
Lol
Okay! I like the sound of that. Which book would you recommend reading first? And be nice. LOL
Burning Chrome is a collection of his short stories. Depends on your lifestyle... if this is easier to get into with real life time limits... or:
Most people would say, Neuromancer is the place to start.
While I am not most people, I'll go out on a limb and agree with them.
Thank ya! The Neuromancer did sound intriguing to me
Congratulations! This post has been upvoted from the communal account, @minnowsupport, by youhavewings from the Minnow Support Project. It's a witness project run by aggroed, ausbitbank, teamsteem, someguy123, neoxian, followbtcnews, and netuoso. The goal is to help Steemit grow by supporting Minnows. Please find us at the Peace, Abundance, and Liberty Network (PALnet) Discord Channel. It's a completely public and open space to all members of the Steemit community who voluntarily choose to be there.
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Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor's perspective helped me to understand a thing or two on the human brain. Just as you have put even more into perspective for me, thank you @youhavewings!
I love that video, too! It opens up so many perspectives - I more align with Dr. Jill's impression of who we are. I don't think we could have survived as long as we have without this higher operating system ;)
Thanks, charisma777 I always enjoy your thoughts and comments
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Some time ago I have read about her and was so fascinated. Completely forgot about her most valuable insights. I really have to catch up on this.
Thank you so much for reminding me of that. This is such a wonderful article, thank you so much <3
Sending a basket full of love your way <3 @youhavewings
@ravijojla, this is for sure a read you would enjoy a lot!
I'm so happy that you enjoyed this. I actually thought of you when I posted the Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor part of the post. I started to tag you in it actually. I think that if you're viewing her video from an experiencer's view, her words become especially meaningful ;) As well as the emotion she pairs with her story. Yes, very powerful stuff.
Thank you, @anutu and much, much love
Hey, @youhavewings I was brought here by @anutu to read this extraordinary post and he had right to recommend it to me.
It is a pleasure to dive below the lines and surf on the top of your thoughts.
Loved the time spent here!
Hi Ravi! I'm glad you liked it - I think we probably have similar views on the organic approach to life. I see the contents in this post much the same way.
Have a great day, Ravi Much love
We do, dear! I'm very happy with the fact we share similar views, indeed.
Love you back!
Touch on a lot of topics here sweets. Great write up. Think I agree most with
WE ARE NOT ROBOTS
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Thank you @enginewitty
So true - all that needed to be said is WE ARE NOT ROBOTS
yet!
give it time...
Thanks for the info, I guess you can be distinguished into smaller groups based on the different categories.
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